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Angular and React both rely on Javascript and HTML, so you can't describe them as "designed to be great front-end technologies". HTML was designed for document

Angular and React both rely on Javascript and HTML, so you can't describe them as "designed to be great front-end technologies". HTML was designed for document exchange, it is a descendent of SGML. Javascript was initially meant to be a light weight scripting language that allowed dynamic elements in HTML. It's gotten better over the years, but it is still far from what you would expect if you were trying to build a great programming environment for the front end. As to the limits of HTML, just consider forms. In the last 20 years, there have been very few new form elements added. Compare the form elements available in HTML in 2018 to what VisualBasic 6 had achieved by 1999, or what Netbeans/Swing offered by 2003.

unclebucknasty 8y ago
I've been saying the same for years. As long as we are working directly with HTML, we will have these impedance problems. The component/event model a la Swing et. al. is a far more elegant match for modern Web development, which is now essentially the same as building window-based native applications. OTOH, HTML was designed for static content delivery. Even if a framework must generate some HTML to remain compatible with browsers, there's no reason we have to work or think in HTML as our central interface model. Give me a canvas, let me lay out (and style) components, then let me respond to events.
emodendroket 8y ago
> HTML was designed for document exchange, it is a descendent of SGML. Javascript was initially meant to be a light weight scripting language that allowed dynamic elements in HTML I always see people saying this, but why does it matter? Electricity was originally piped into homes for lighting, but we don't need an alternate way to power all the electric devices in our home. Unix was designed for computers that are quite different from the ones we use today. And so on.
- lkrubner 8y ago
  I can't repeat all of my arguments in a comment on Hacker News. I would ask that you read what I wrote in "The Problem With HTML": http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/the-problem-with-html http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/the-problem-with-html
fauigerzigerk 8y ago
I agree with you on HTML/CSS but I don't see how JavaScript is any worse than VB or any other programming language ever used for frontends.

unclebucknasty 8y ago

I've been saying the same for years. As long as we are working directly with HTML, we will have these impedance problems. The component/event model a la Swing et. al. is a far more elegant match for modern Web development, which is now essentially the same as building window-based native applications. OTOH, HTML was designed for static content delivery. Even if a framework must generate some HTML to remain compatible with browsers, there's no reason we have to work or think in HTML as our central interface model. Give me a canvas, let me lay out (and style) components, then let me respond to events.

emodendroket 8y ago

> HTML was designed for document exchange, it is a descendent of SGML. Javascript was initially meant to be a light weight scripting language that allowed dynamic elements in HTML I always see people saying this, but why does it matter? Electricity was originally piped into homes for lighting, but we don't need an alternate way to power all the electric devices in our home. Unix was designed for computers that are quite different from the ones we use today. And so on.

lkrubner 8y ago
I can't repeat all of my arguments in a comment on Hacker News. I would ask that you read what I wrote in "The Problem With HTML": http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/the-problem-with-html http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/the-problem-with-html

fauigerzigerk 8y ago

I agree with you on HTML/CSS but I don't see how JavaScript is any worse than VB or any other programming language ever used for frontends.