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Most well educated people I think could teach at least one subject And in essence you have hit on the problem. Everybody thinks they can be a teacher. And fo

by dhimes 8y ago

Most well educated people I think could teach at least one subject And in essence you have hit on the problem. Everybody thinks they can be a teacher. And for some value of $teacher they can, but it's hard to be really good. You might watch LeBron James play basketball and think "I can do that," go out on the court and take a few shots, and think you're pretty good. But you're likely not. This is why assessing teachers is soooooo important. We need reliable, verifiable ways to separate the good from the bad.

germinalphrase 8y ago
And yet, assessing teachers reliably is a very difficult task. As a teacher, the moment that a reliable assessment method is introduced there will be significant push back; however, it will also be the key to broad improvements in the education system and the further professionalisation of teaching (and, by extension, teacher retention/compensation). I also believe that this starts by enabling classroom teachers to assess their students with the reliability of standardized tests but within their individualized curriculum. That's not an easily ask - but it is an exciting concept that I return to every few months.
- dhimes 8y ago
  I agree. If we ever get there then this will be the way that top teachers finally start making the money they deserve. The caveat, of course, is that they will be in limited supply so we'll need a way to extend their influence.
  - germinalphrase 8y ago
    Yes - but we will actually have a tool upon which to make effective evaluations and offer individualized learning goals for teachers. Understanding my weaknesses is the first step in strengthening them (or leaving the profession if I can't).
- dahdum 8y ago
  I disagree a bit here, but I do have a limited understanding of the history of education. US high schools lag significantly behind international averages [1] across almost all metrics, and are used for socializing more than other other countries. It's so easy for us to blame teachers, or to wishfully think they could turn it around on their own, but the approach has to extend beyond the classroom. Non-school factors are estimated to have 4-8 times the impact as teacher quality. [2] We should work on removing vocational program stigma and drop the illusion that everyone should aspire to a 4 year degree, even if in disciplines with terrible job markets, to "succeed". I really wish there was some way of incentivizing parents to be more involved, or moving to year round all day education to mitigate their impact. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2014/02/high_school_in_america_a_complete_disaster.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2014/02/high_sc... [2] https://www.rand.org/education/projects/measuring-teacher-effectiveness/teachers-matter.html https://www.rand.org/education/projects/measuring-teacher-ef...
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "US high schools lag significantly behind international averages" This is a red herring - to the point where it is misleading. A) Start with US 'students students' are behind maybe instead of schools. Because the comparison scores are PISA and they measure people not institutions. But more importantly: B) It's ethnicity. (And I'm not attributing anything to race here). 'European Americans' have been doing the same for the last 40 years. They are doing a little bit better than Europeans from Europe. 'Asian Americans' have been doing the same since we've measured them as a group, they do a little bit better than European Americans, and tend to do a little bit better than Asians from Asia. African Americans fare the worst, Latino Americans fare better, but both groups have been doing a little bit better over time. They do a little bit better respectively than Latinos from South America and Africans from Africa. Demographically, there are considerably more Latinos, and a few more Asian and African Americans in the country - which tilts the data. So you see: any group from anywhere in the world actually fares better in America than they would in their place of origin. Which is really a different way of looking at it, no? Because of the social and economic disparity between these groups, it lends well to the notion that it's about the students and not the schools. Small but slightly less relevant note: the top American students tie the top UK students as being among the best in the world. The US/UK have a little bit of an elitist function going on. So consider this: I'm Canadian, always proud that 'we fare better than the US' on PISA testing, but really, once you normalize for ethnicity (we don't have large groups of Latinos and African Americans) - then we do about the same. And of course I should add I don't think this is racial issue at all, however I do think that the social + economic status of any group is tied to things like outlook on education, history of literacy in the family yada yada. All of this is based on PISA scoring which is available on their site and other places.

by dhimes 8y ago

germinalphrase 8y ago

And yet, assessing teachers reliably is a very difficult task. As a teacher, the moment that a reliable assessment method is introduced there will be significant push back; however, it will also be the key to broad improvements in the education system and the further professionalisation of teaching (and, by extension, teacher retention/compensation). I also believe that this starts by enabling classroom teachers to assess their students with the reliability of standardized tests but within their individualized curriculum. That's not an easily ask - but it is an exciting concept that I return to every few months.

dhimes 8y ago
I agree. If we ever get there then this will be the way that top teachers finally start making the money they deserve. The caveat, of course, is that they will be in limited supply so we'll need a way to extend their influence.
- germinalphrase 8y ago
  Yes - but we will actually have a tool upon which to make effective evaluations and offer individualized learning goals for teachers. Understanding my weaknesses is the first step in strengthening them (or leaving the profession if I can't).
dahdum 8y ago
I disagree a bit here, but I do have a limited understanding of the history of education. US high schools lag significantly behind international averages [1] across almost all metrics, and are used for socializing more than other other countries. It's so easy for us to blame teachers, or to wishfully think they could turn it around on their own, but the approach has to extend beyond the classroom. Non-school factors are estimated to have 4-8 times the impact as teacher quality. [2] We should work on removing vocational program stigma and drop the illusion that everyone should aspire to a 4 year degree, even if in disciplines with terrible job markets, to "succeed". I really wish there was some way of incentivizing parents to be more involved, or moving to year round all day education to mitigate their impact. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2014/02/high_school_in_america_a_complete_disaster.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2014/02/high_sc... [2] https://www.rand.org/education/projects/measuring-teacher-effectiveness/teachers-matter.html https://www.rand.org/education/projects/measuring-teacher-ef...
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "US high schools lag significantly behind international averages" This is a red herring - to the point where it is misleading. A) Start with US 'students students' are behind maybe instead of schools. Because the comparison scores are PISA and they measure people not institutions. But more importantly: B) It's ethnicity. (And I'm not attributing anything to race here). 'European Americans' have been doing the same for the last 40 years. They are doing a little bit better than Europeans from Europe. 'Asian Americans' have been doing the same since we've measured them as a group, they do a little bit better than European Americans, and tend to do a little bit better than Asians from Asia. African Americans fare the worst, Latino Americans fare better, but both groups have been doing a little bit better over time. They do a little bit better respectively than Latinos from South America and Africans from Africa. Demographically, there are considerably more Latinos, and a few more Asian and African Americans in the country - which tilts the data. So you see: any group from anywhere in the world actually fares better in America than they would in their place of origin. Which is really a different way of looking at it, no? Because of the social and economic disparity between these groups, it lends well to the notion that it's about the students and not the schools. Small but slightly less relevant note: the top American students tie the top UK students as being among the best in the world. The US/UK have a little bit of an elitist function going on. So consider this: I'm Canadian, always proud that 'we fare better than the US' on PISA testing, but really, once you normalize for ethnicity (we don't have large groups of Latinos and African Americans) - then we do about the same. And of course I should add I don't think this is racial issue at all, however I do think that the social + economic status of any group is tied to things like outlook on education, history of literacy in the family yada yada. All of this is based on PISA scoring which is available on their site and other places.