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I'm curious to know if Russia's a big enough market for Apple to give a shit. It's not China. Also, does Putin really want to upset the middle-class iPhone user

I'm curious to know if Russia's a big enough market for Apple to give a shit. It's not China. Also, does Putin really want to upset the middle-class iPhone users in Russia, over an app written by Russians? Seems risky.

mv4 8y ago
Putin does not care about middle-class iPhone users in Russia. Blocking Telegram is just another form of censorship for him. He got away with blocking half the Internet in Russia already. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-internet-censorship-facebook-regulations-rules-a8315656.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-inter...
- Grue3 8y ago
  For those who read this, "half of the Internet" is not an exaggeration. I legitimately cannot access about half of websites I get linked to without a proxy.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    I had a couple of questions about this. First does attempting to access the site simply time out? For instance in the UAE you get an official message saying that the content is blocked. Second what has the coverage of this been like in the local media?
    - codedokode 8y ago
      Yes, it times out. If a site uses HTTP, there can be a notification about it being blocked, for HTTPS sites it is not possible. Some ISPs block packets by inspecting SNI field and such blocks can be bypassed by playing with TCP packet size either from client or server side. Some ISPs just block traffic to blacklisted IPs without inspecting the packets. > Second what has the coverage of this been like in the local media? All major media in Russia are controlled by the government. They reported that Telegram is used by terrorists and drug dealers and Durov refused to comply with russian law and provide decryption keys that are needed for the invesigation (Durov says that accounts in question are long deactivated and that he was required to provide keys allowing to decrypt the traffic of any user, and that those terrorists used WhatsApp as well). Putin's advisor on Internet development also suggested that russian users can switch to messengers made by russian companies. There also was a small rally in Moscow against internet censorship. Only about 12000 people from 12-million city took part in it.
      - bogomipz 8y ago
        Thanks for the response. >"Yes, it times out. If a site uses HTTP, there can be a notification about it being blocked, for HTTPS sites it is not possible." Why wouldn't it be possible to get a notification for HTTPs though since the domain part of the URL is still unencrypted? How does manipulating the packet size help steer around the blocking? Also I am curious what the media coverage has been regarding the state HTTP filtering?
        codedokode 8y ago
        > Why wouldn't it be possible to get a notification for HTTPs Because you need a valid certificate to break SSL connection. > How does manipulating the packet size help steer around the blocking? The filtering hardware looks for SNI field at specific offset. If you break packet into two it will let the packet through because it doesn't reassemble IP packets (probably because it would require more resources). > what the media coverage has been regarding the state HTTP filtering? When the law was discussed initially, I think somewhere around 2012, after large protests against falsifying parlament election results and Putin's third term, media explained that there is many illegal information on the net, for example, terrorists' sites, sites selling drugs, sites that promote homosexual relations or suicide among minors. So the government needs a law to protect children from this. Sometimes they also add that some western countries censor Internet access too. Several years later new causes to block sites were added, such as sites with pirated movies, casino sites, sites that allow to view blocked content or provide VPN services, or pages that call for an unauthorized rallies. It is somewhat ironical that when Ukraine blocked russian social networks, media explained how to bypass the block.
- prophesi 8y ago
  For a history on Putin's censorship: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Web-Struggle-Dictators-Revolutionaries/dp/1610395735 https://www.amazon.com/Red-Web-Struggle-Dictators-Revolution...
elvirs 8y ago
for the first 5 or so years, iphones were not officially available for sale in russia. Russian cellular carriers didnt want to play by Apple's tough rules but iphones were still getting very popular as people were still asking anybody traveling to overseas to buy an iphone for them. Putin may still play a similar card but I hope Russia doesnt go as far as preventing registration of new iPhone IMEI numbers on its networks, that would be the Putin's lowest move.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  > that would be the Putin's lowest move. Irritating, yes, but his regime does have a fair collection of dark events. I struggle to think of a current world leader in the same league.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Nah, let's not jump into conclusions. Russia wants to ban Telegram, the reasons are their own (not providing CALEA-like access to communication network proven to be used by terrorists is a biggie). They do not have any mean to block just Telegram in the Apple Appstore, but they do have the means to block entire Appstore. Anyone would go for minimal impact: ask Apple to cooperate; if they do, fine. If they don't, pull the nearest gun that achieves the result. Whenther some random Ivan uses iPhone or not, nobody really cares.

mv4 8y ago

Putin does not care about middle-class iPhone users in Russia. Blocking Telegram is just another form of censorship for him. He got away with blocking half the Internet in Russia already. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-internet-censorship-facebook-regulations-rules-a8315656.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-inter...

Grue3 8y ago
For those who read this, "half of the Internet" is not an exaggeration. I legitimately cannot access about half of websites I get linked to without a proxy.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  I had a couple of questions about this. First does attempting to access the site simply time out? For instance in the UAE you get an official message saying that the content is blocked. Second what has the coverage of this been like in the local media?
  - codedokode 8y ago
    Yes, it times out. If a site uses HTTP, there can be a notification about it being blocked, for HTTPS sites it is not possible. Some ISPs block packets by inspecting SNI field and such blocks can be bypassed by playing with TCP packet size either from client or server side. Some ISPs just block traffic to blacklisted IPs without inspecting the packets. > Second what has the coverage of this been like in the local media? All major media in Russia are controlled by the government. They reported that Telegram is used by terrorists and drug dealers and Durov refused to comply with russian law and provide decryption keys that are needed for the invesigation (Durov says that accounts in question are long deactivated and that he was required to provide keys allowing to decrypt the traffic of any user, and that those terrorists used WhatsApp as well). Putin's advisor on Internet development also suggested that russian users can switch to messengers made by russian companies. There also was a small rally in Moscow against internet censorship. Only about 12000 people from 12-million city took part in it.
    - bogomipz 8y ago
      Thanks for the response. >"Yes, it times out. If a site uses HTTP, there can be a notification about it being blocked, for HTTPS sites it is not possible." Why wouldn't it be possible to get a notification for HTTPs though since the domain part of the URL is still unencrypted? How does manipulating the packet size help steer around the blocking? Also I am curious what the media coverage has been regarding the state HTTP filtering?
      - codedokode 8y ago
        > Why wouldn't it be possible to get a notification for HTTPs Because you need a valid certificate to break SSL connection. > How does manipulating the packet size help steer around the blocking? The filtering hardware looks for SNI field at specific offset. If you break packet into two it will let the packet through because it doesn't reassemble IP packets (probably because it would require more resources). > what the media coverage has been regarding the state HTTP filtering? When the law was discussed initially, I think somewhere around 2012, after large protests against falsifying parlament election results and Putin's third term, media explained that there is many illegal information on the net, for example, terrorists' sites, sites selling drugs, sites that promote homosexual relations or suicide among minors. So the government needs a law to protect children from this. Sometimes they also add that some western countries censor Internet access too. Several years later new causes to block sites were added, such as sites with pirated movies, casino sites, sites that allow to view blocked content or provide VPN services, or pages that call for an unauthorized rallies. It is somewhat ironical that when Ukraine blocked russian social networks, media explained how to bypass the block.
prophesi 8y ago
For a history on Putin's censorship: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Web-Struggle-Dictators-Revolutionaries/dp/1610395735 https://www.amazon.com/Red-Web-Struggle-Dictators-Revolution...

elvirs 8y ago

for the first 5 or so years, iphones were not officially available for sale in russia. Russian cellular carriers didnt want to play by Apple's tough rules but iphones were still getting very popular as people were still asking anybody traveling to overseas to buy an iphone for them. Putin may still play a similar card but I hope Russia doesnt go as far as preventing registration of new iPhone IMEI numbers on its networks, that would be the Putin's lowest move.

lostlogin 8y ago
> that would be the Putin's lowest move. Irritating, yes, but his regime does have a fair collection of dark events. I struggle to think of a current world leader in the same league.
vetinari 8y ago
Nah, let's not jump into conclusions. Russia wants to ban Telegram, the reasons are their own (not providing CALEA-like access to communication network proven to be used by terrorists is a biggie). They do not have any mean to block just Telegram in the Apple Appstore, but they do have the means to block entire Appstore. Anyone would go for minimal impact: ask Apple to cooperate; if they do, fine. If they don't, pull the nearest gun that achieves the result. Whenther some random Ivan uses iPhone or not, nobody really cares.