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> Having to learn a new library every 3-4 years (because of a new job, generally) is it really a big deal? _If_ frontend development is all you do, then no, it

> Having to learn a new library every 3-4 years (because of a new job, generally) is it really a big deal? _If_ frontend development is all you do, then no, it isn't. One of the good things about the internet is that it's possible for a lone wolf to build and ship something amazing. One person can understand enough of the full stack, from HTML/CSS through JS to a serverside language and basic server administration, to build something great, unfunded. The constant churn in frontend development makes that increasingly difficult. If you find a useful library for your backend code, great, just 'gem install' it (or pip or whatever). Useful JS library for your frontend code? You've got to learn the packaging technology du jour just to be able to install it. In two years' time this'll be different, and you'll have to get to grips with another complex web of tiny little components that fit together in ways you don't fully understand. Whereas your backend (for me, Ruby+Postgres) is still essentially the same it's always been, and just as great. Indie full-stack developers can no longer keep up with frontend development, and I think that's a great loss.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
I've recently gone back to do some Java development after idk, five years of front-end and mobile, and the tooling and frameworks are still the same. A bit more polished maybe, but, Java, Spring, Gradle, bit of Hibernate (urgh), bit of Jackson magic, not much has changed since then, so it was pretty easy to get back up to speed in that area.
Raphmedia 8y ago
> Indie full-stack developers can no longer keep up with frontend development, and I think that's a great loss. Who exactly? Did you ever hear a front-end developer say that or are you building a strawman? There's nothing stopping anyone from building a simple jQuery powered website. There's nothing stopping anyone from building an app with Angular 1 either. Hell, you can even download .zip files on GitHub, unarchive them in a folder and start using them in your projects. Complex build system are only a way to streamline development when you get to a certain level of projects output.
- lolsal 8y ago
  I was a full-stack developer 5 years ago. I am not any longer due to the chaos in frontend development technologies, best practices, etc. It was too much for me to keep up with, so I opted out and only do backend stuff now.
jsight 8y ago
I think you really nailed it with the packaging concerns. It doesn't help that every little framework (and mini-framework) seems to think that the problem can be fixed by just shipping their own little CLI wrapper. Not having a decent build and package management system is what makes the frontend ecosystem so hard, IMO. I'm hoping this finally changes in the next couple of years.
lolsal 8y ago
I could not quite articulate what I was thinking, but you have captured my thoughts very well. I used to be a 'full-stack' developer - back when 'installing' JS libraries meant dropping the file(s) into your `static/js/` directory and running with it. I find frontend technology so chaotic (not complicated, just chaotic) that combined with the rapid improvements of browser/css/html feature support I was left in the dust and relegated to be a backend engineer.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

I've recently gone back to do some Java development after idk, five years of front-end and mobile, and the tooling and frameworks are still the same. A bit more polished maybe, but, Java, Spring, Gradle, bit of Hibernate (urgh), bit of Jackson magic, not much has changed since then, so it was pretty easy to get back up to speed in that area.

Raphmedia 8y ago

> Indie full-stack developers can no longer keep up with frontend development, and I think that's a great loss. Who exactly? Did you ever hear a front-end developer say that or are you building a strawman? There's nothing stopping anyone from building a simple jQuery powered website. There's nothing stopping anyone from building an app with Angular 1 either. Hell, you can even download .zip files on GitHub, unarchive them in a folder and start using them in your projects. Complex build system are only a way to streamline development when you get to a certain level of projects output.

lolsal 8y ago
I was a full-stack developer 5 years ago. I am not any longer due to the chaos in frontend development technologies, best practices, etc. It was too much for me to keep up with, so I opted out and only do backend stuff now.

jsight 8y ago

I think you really nailed it with the packaging concerns. It doesn't help that every little framework (and mini-framework) seems to think that the problem can be fixed by just shipping their own little CLI wrapper. Not having a decent build and package management system is what makes the frontend ecosystem so hard, IMO. I'm hoping this finally changes in the next couple of years.

lolsal 8y ago

I could not quite articulate what I was thinking, but you have captured my thoughts very well. I used to be a 'full-stack' developer - back when 'installing' JS libraries meant dropping the file(s) into your `static/js/` directory and running with it. I find frontend technology so chaotic (not complicated, just chaotic) that combined with the rapid improvements of browser/css/html feature support I was left in the dust and relegated to be a backend engineer.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]