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> The history of human technological advancement is the history of violence and the desire for control. It's certainly not given, though. Post-war Japan is an

by js8 8y ago

> The history of human technological advancement is the history of violence and the desire for control. It's certainly not given, though. Post-war Japan is an example of enormous technological progress (that surpassed other nations at some point) without military emphasis. Ever since I learned about Sapolski's baboon troupe, I have been always wondering how many things that people call "natural" for humans to do are actually quite easily culturally changed. I think a fair bit.

AndrewKemendo 8y ago
Post-war Japan is an example of enormous technological progress (that surpassed other nations at some point) without military emphasis. This oversimplifies the issue, and insinuates that the Japanese became pacifist. In fact because of a long imperialist history Japan chose to become personally defensive - while being protected by the US forces through the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation [1]. So postwar Japan effectively outsourced their strategic capability to the US and UN. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_and_Security_Between_the_United_States_and_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_a...
- js8 8y ago
  I don't think having a good defense is in contradiction with pacifism. Unfortunately, "defense" in the U.S. is more orwellian term. Anyhow, I was addressing the perception that you cannot have technological progress (or prowess) without significant military applications. Of course you can.
- aikinai 8y ago
  You’re right that Japan’s rapid technological progress wouldn’t have been possible without hiding behind the US shield, but that’s just because it allowed them to divert resources. The development itself was distinctly civilian and not dependent on the military as GP mentioned. Also, Japan’s imperialist history was about 50 years; that’s certainly not “long” in the scheme of world history.

by js8 8y ago

AndrewKemendo 8y ago

Post-war Japan is an example of enormous technological progress (that surpassed other nations at some point) without military emphasis. This oversimplifies the issue, and insinuates that the Japanese became pacifist. In fact because of a long imperialist history Japan chose to become personally defensive - while being protected by the US forces through the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation [1]. So postwar Japan effectively outsourced their strategic capability to the US and UN. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_and_Security_Between_the_United_States_and_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_a...

js8 8y ago
I don't think having a good defense is in contradiction with pacifism. Unfortunately, "defense" in the U.S. is more orwellian term. Anyhow, I was addressing the perception that you cannot have technological progress (or prowess) without significant military applications. Of course you can.
aikinai 8y ago
You’re right that Japan’s rapid technological progress wouldn’t have been possible without hiding behind the US shield, but that’s just because it allowed them to divert resources. The development itself was distinctly civilian and not dependent on the military as GP mentioned. Also, Japan’s imperialist history was about 50 years; that’s certainly not “long” in the scheme of world history.