5 ms·

Healthy and subject to a "social credits" system. I'd rather be morbidly obese than have the government force me to play a social status game.

by kizer 8y ago

perfmode 8y ago
in the united states, the means of control are hidden rather than apparent.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Case in point, the no-fly list in the US. No one publically knows if they're on it, there is similarly no means to appeal being on it. At least one would know if they held a poor Chinese social credit rating - though I don't know what resolution mechanism they might have for mistakes either.
  - hueving 8y ago
    I can't be put on the no-fly list for shoveling bigmacs down my throat.
    - dv_dt 8y ago
      How do you know? The criteria are not public either.
    - Simulacra 8y ago
      Respectfully I disagree. Some airlines will make you buy a second seat, but if there is no second seat, you could be bumped from that airplane due to incredible obesity. Likewise, with enough big Macs, you might grow to such large size that you present safety issues for other passengers. As such, you might be denied boarding.
      - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
        That’s a false equivalency. The parent said that you won’t be put on a no-fly list for being morbidly obese. That’s not the same as the airline not being able to accommodate you because of your extreme body size.
      - kizer 8y ago
        It's fine if a business judges you on all the information they can get; for example, in hiring new employees, etc. But the government is not an institution that should be rewarding or penalizing behavior that is within the bounds of law. Obviously, you get -10000 points let's say if you commit a felony in the US. But you don't get +5xp for praising the government or being a good neighbor, or -5xp for being rude to a waiter or something. That's like, a few orders of magnitude of closer government behavioral management.
      - hueving 8y ago
        That's not the no-fly list. That's just paying for your weight.
  - briandear 8y ago
    How many innocent people are in those lists? Even if it were 100,000, that’s statistically meaningless.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
wetpaws 8y ago
Pretty much every single being on this planet is playing social status game, all China did is put a number on it.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  A government issued number. Thats the key difference. In the real world you can move in the country and start anew somewhere else.
  - pphysch 8y ago
    How is this functionally different than e.g. a criminal or financial record? If you can escape these, you can escape other government records.
    - txcwpalpha 8y ago
      To add to those examples: standardized test scores (like those for college admissions), education records (including collegiate degrees), health records, residency records, credit scores, driving records are all permanent records that are maintained by organizations that are either governmental or no better than a govt org. I'm not a fan of China's system either, but it's silly to act like it's something new. Nearly every citizen of any first world country has a huge set of permanent records being compiled on them, not just those in China.
      - briandear 8y ago
        My SAT score doesn’t dictate if I can board an airplane. My credit score doesn’t affect me getting a passport. Comparing China’s social credit system to US records is completely off base.
        txcwpalpha 8y ago
        Your records certainly can affect you getting a passport. Depending on your criminal past, you may be banned from getting a passport. Similarly, some countries (Canada comes to mind) will ban you from entering the country for things as small as running a stop sign while driving. You can also be banned from getting a passport if you are behind on your taxes or child support payments. As for getting on a plane, all of the above apply too, as well as the fact that you can be barred from flying simply by having a certain last name. Your personal records also affect things like how easy it is for you to get through customs and airport security. Global Entry/TSA PreCheck, for example, will be completely off-limits to you if you have 'questionable' travel records in your past. Pretending the US/EU doesn't already have the Chinese social credit system in place is sticking your head in the sand. All China has done is formalize it.
falcon620 8y ago
Is this where some nasty european posts that escalator-to-a-fitness center photo from the 2000s?
akhatri_aus 8y ago
You realise China's current political system is merely a stage of its economic development, I hope?
- ericd 8y ago
  That doesn't seem nearly obvious enough to take that tone without at least a little explanation.
Iv 8y ago
The US has credit ratings and secret no-fly lists. I really fear what the CCP will do with their scores but so far it seems to have a lower impact on peoples' life than the US' system has.

Healthy and subject to a "social credits" system. I'd rather be morbidly obese than have the government force me to play a social status game.

by kizer 8y ago

Healthy and subject to a "social credits" system. I'd rather be morbidly obese than have the government force me to play a social status game.

perfmode 8y ago

in the united states, the means of control are hidden rather than apparent.

dv_dt 8y ago
Case in point, the no-fly list in the US. No one publically knows if they're on it, there is similarly no means to appeal being on it. At least one would know if they held a poor Chinese social credit rating - though I don't know what resolution mechanism they might have for mistakes either.
- hueving 8y ago
  I can't be put on the no-fly list for shoveling bigmacs down my throat.
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    How do you know? The criteria are not public either.
  - Simulacra 8y ago
    Respectfully I disagree. Some airlines will make you buy a second seat, but if there is no second seat, you could be bumped from that airplane due to incredible obesity. Likewise, with enough big Macs, you might grow to such large size that you present safety issues for other passengers. As such, you might be denied boarding.
    - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
      That’s a false equivalency. The parent said that you won’t be put on a no-fly list for being morbidly obese. That’s not the same as the airline not being able to accommodate you because of your extreme body size.
    - kizer 8y ago
      It's fine if a business judges you on all the information they can get; for example, in hiring new employees, etc. But the government is not an institution that should be rewarding or penalizing behavior that is within the bounds of law. Obviously, you get -10000 points let's say if you commit a felony in the US. But you don't get +5xp for praising the government or being a good neighbor, or -5xp for being rude to a waiter or something. That's like, a few orders of magnitude of closer government behavioral management.
    - hueving 8y ago
      That's not the no-fly list. That's just paying for your weight.
- briandear 8y ago
  How many innocent people are in those lists? Even if it were 100,000, that’s statistically meaningless.
stcredzero 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

wetpaws 8y ago

Pretty much every single being on this planet is playing social status game, all China did is put a number on it.

ekianjo 8y ago
A government issued number. Thats the key difference. In the real world you can move in the country and start anew somewhere else.
- pphysch 8y ago
  How is this functionally different than e.g. a criminal or financial record? If you can escape these, you can escape other government records.
  - txcwpalpha 8y ago
    To add to those examples: standardized test scores (like those for college admissions), education records (including collegiate degrees), health records, residency records, credit scores, driving records are all permanent records that are maintained by organizations that are either governmental or no better than a govt org. I'm not a fan of China's system either, but it's silly to act like it's something new. Nearly every citizen of any first world country has a huge set of permanent records being compiled on them, not just those in China.
    - briandear 8y ago
      My SAT score doesn’t dictate if I can board an airplane. My credit score doesn’t affect me getting a passport. Comparing China’s social credit system to US records is completely off base.
      - txcwpalpha 8y ago
        Your records certainly can affect you getting a passport. Depending on your criminal past, you may be banned from getting a passport. Similarly, some countries (Canada comes to mind) will ban you from entering the country for things as small as running a stop sign while driving. You can also be banned from getting a passport if you are behind on your taxes or child support payments. As for getting on a plane, all of the above apply too, as well as the fact that you can be barred from flying simply by having a certain last name. Your personal records also affect things like how easy it is for you to get through customs and airport security. Global Entry/TSA PreCheck, for example, will be completely off-limits to you if you have 'questionable' travel records in your past. Pretending the US/EU doesn't already have the Chinese social credit system in place is sticking your head in the sand. All China has done is formalize it.

falcon620 8y ago

Is this where some nasty european posts that escalator-to-a-fitness center photo from the 2000s?

akhatri_aus 8y ago

You realise China's current political system is merely a stage of its economic development, I hope?

ericd 8y ago
That doesn't seem nearly obvious enough to take that tone without at least a little explanation.

Iv 8y ago

The US has credit ratings and secret no-fly lists. I really fear what the CCP will do with their scores but so far it seems to have a lower impact on peoples' life than the US' system has.