4 ms·

The difference is that the backend model has been around for 20 years if not more. You're locating lots of old-ish and stable libraries because that's when that

The difference is that the backend model has been around for 20 years if not more. You're locating lots of old-ish and stable libraries because that's when that stuff was made. Maybe you don't remember the days of Zope, Subway, Turbogears, Paste, Pylons, Werkzeug etc just within Python, but that happened. React is a relatively young model for the web. Wait 10 years and it'll look the same. I personally don't feel it's that unstable. Pick a library, stick with it, stop jumping to the next framework and the churn stops. It's part of being a mature dev. Things always look worse to outsiders than they are.

freedomben 8y ago
These are some very fair points. React also really does seem to be becoming a "standard" more so than anything I've seen in years. Time will tell of course, but I think you're on to something.
perlgeek 8y ago
> Pick a library, stick with it, stop jumping to the next framework and the churn stops. I wish it were that easy. At work, we've picked angular 1, and now there's angular 5, which is a totally different framework (and the migration path only works well if you did everything juuuust right), and no clear policy on how long angular 1 will be maintained. So either we churn, or we have no idea how long there will be any support.
- underwater 8y ago
  This is the risk in the authors advice to just pick a monolithic framework. We’ve been building a React framework. We’ve been careful about how we choose components to use, so there has been very little churn. And because we control the implementation we’ve been able to build things we could never have done with a library like Angular.
- hvs 8y ago
  They made a fair number of mistakes with Angular.js (1), so the rewrite was a sensible, if painful change for early adopters. Since version 2, the model has remained relatively stable with changes being improvements rather than completely breaking.
megaman22 8y ago
The front-end world is rediscovering lessons learned in the days of desktop thick clients from the 90s, if not earlier. I rage far too often that I have to jump through all these hoops to slam out some UI that I could have done in high school with VB6.
- tracker1 8y ago
  That said, most <= VB6 apps I've ever seen didn't even handle, or enable a window resize properly. You can do a simple web app with straight HTML, and a light web server app pretty simply. Not as simply, but simply enough if you wanted to.
  - janoc 8y ago
    Well, then take Qt Designer if you must - automatic layout management to gracefully handle window resize. The amount of crap you have to go through to make that work properly (and even then it won't work right in all cases) using the common web frameworks is just astounding ...
    - tracker1 8y ago
      I'm referring to CSS media queries in HTML/CSS, which don't have a nearly as clean equivalent for applications. Even then, I've done better with React. If I had to build native apps today, I'd look for a React Native adapter for whatever platform or reach for electron first.
  - goatlover 8y ago
    > VB6 apps I've ever seen didn't even handle, or enable a window resize properly. I think the complaint is that GUI builders from the 90s could have been adopted and improved (responsive for one) on the web in the last 20 years. Flash had a GUI builder, animation timeline, etc. ten years ago.
- mmargerum 8y ago
  It’s a real stretch to compare a reactive library like vue with vb6. Building uis in vue is a pleasure and you almost entirely avoid ui state bugs since you aren’t directly manipulating the ui controls (dom)

freedomben 8y ago

These are some very fair points. React also really does seem to be becoming a "standard" more so than anything I've seen in years. Time will tell of course, but I think you're on to something.

perlgeek 8y ago

> Pick a library, stick with it, stop jumping to the next framework and the churn stops. I wish it were that easy. At work, we've picked angular 1, and now there's angular 5, which is a totally different framework (and the migration path only works well if you did everything juuuust right), and no clear policy on how long angular 1 will be maintained. So either we churn, or we have no idea how long there will be any support.

underwater 8y ago
This is the risk in the authors advice to just pick a monolithic framework. We’ve been building a React framework. We’ve been careful about how we choose components to use, so there has been very little churn. And because we control the implementation we’ve been able to build things we could never have done with a library like Angular.
hvs 8y ago
They made a fair number of mistakes with Angular.js (1), so the rewrite was a sensible, if painful change for early adopters. Since version 2, the model has remained relatively stable with changes being improvements rather than completely breaking.

megaman22 8y ago

The front-end world is rediscovering lessons learned in the days of desktop thick clients from the 90s, if not earlier. I rage far too often that I have to jump through all these hoops to slam out some UI that I could have done in high school with VB6.

tracker1 8y ago
That said, most <= VB6 apps I've ever seen didn't even handle, or enable a window resize properly. You can do a simple web app with straight HTML, and a light web server app pretty simply. Not as simply, but simply enough if you wanted to.
- janoc 8y ago
  Well, then take Qt Designer if you must - automatic layout management to gracefully handle window resize. The amount of crap you have to go through to make that work properly (and even then it won't work right in all cases) using the common web frameworks is just astounding ...
  - tracker1 8y ago
    I'm referring to CSS media queries in HTML/CSS, which don't have a nearly as clean equivalent for applications. Even then, I've done better with React. If I had to build native apps today, I'd look for a React Native adapter for whatever platform or reach for electron first.
- goatlover 8y ago
  > VB6 apps I've ever seen didn't even handle, or enable a window resize properly. I think the complaint is that GUI builders from the 90s could have been adopted and improved (responsive for one) on the web in the last 20 years. Flash had a GUI builder, animation timeline, etc. ten years ago.
mmargerum 8y ago
It’s a real stretch to compare a reactive library like vue with vb6. Building uis in vue is a pleasure and you almost entirely avoid ui state bugs since you aren’t directly manipulating the ui controls (dom)