4 ms·

I didn't downvote but jeremyt's statement is without evidence. It's certainly plausible that the statement could be correct but there really isn't any evidence

by sykh 8y ago

I didn't downvote but jeremyt's statement is without evidence. It's certainly plausible that the statement could be correct but there really isn't any evidence given to support it.

reaperducer 8y ago
> jeremyt's statement is without evidence The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits. While there's currently no specific press release linking Wal-mart's actions with the tax change, it certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility (and HN-class conclusion jumping).
- sykh 8y ago
  I guess I read different news than you. I’ve read that most of the money is going toward stock buybacks. The pressure on wages is coming from a tighter labor market. That’s what I’ve read but I don’t know enough to say one way or the other. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/now-we-know-where-the-tax-cut-is-going-share-buybacks-2018-02-22 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/now-we-know-where-the-tax-... http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/09/news/companies/tax-cut-bonuses-buybacks/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/09/news/companies/tax-cut-bonus...
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    You are correct that there have been stock buybacks, as well. But I'm not sure it counts as "most." First, of the companies that are doing stock buybacks, not all are doing only stock buybacks. Many are doing other things as well. Second, there's a whole great big world out there called "local news" where you'll see these stories that aren't covered by CNN, Marketwatch, CNBC, etc... Yes, some big companies are doing stock buybacks, but there's a lot more going on in the business world than the Fortune 500.
    - sykh 8y ago
      Well from one of the articles I referenced: This follows a report by benefits consulting firm Aon Hewitt finding that 83% of large companies don’t expect the tax cut to boost salaries at all — just help pay for small bonuses companies like WalMart WMT, +1.98% and AT&T T, +0.70% gave workers, which reporters soon discovered were, themselves, skewed toward higher-paid, longer-tenured employees in many cases. However one feels about the issue my point still stands. Th comment that started this thread gave no supporting evidence for the claim and thus deserved to be downvoted. Also the article we are all nominally commenting on is about Walmart which is a Fortune 500 company. Is its tuition plan because of the Trump tax cuts?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- pktgen 8y ago
  > The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits. No, there have been dozens or hundreds of companies claiming that tax cuts were responsible for employee compensation increases. Many of those were one-time bonuses, but the tax cuts are ongoing. In some cases where the benefits were ongoing (like Walmart's hourly pay increase), you'll find that they tend to coincide with the overall trend of state minimum wage increases. This is just PR: they're getting ahead of the trend and trying to attribute it to tax cuts rather than other forces. Also, since employee compensation was tax-deductible even before the tax cut, taxes certainly weren't stopping companies from raising wages before the tax cut.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Pretty much. Companies are using the tax cuts to signal goodwill to the market, but in reality the temporary increase in benefits is an expense coming from pre-tax income. The tax cuts are causing increased employee benefits is a red herring.
  - gowld 8y ago
    No, tax deductions are not tax credits. Suppose the company is targeting $100 net profit, and has $200 income available, before taxes and "bonus wages". At 20% tax rate, the company can pay $75 in deductible wages, plus ($(200-75)0.2) $25 in tax At 10% tax rate, the company can pay $89 in deductible wages, plus ($(200-89)0.1) = $11 in tax. Lower taxes enables higher wages.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      That's not quite how it works. Publicly-traded companies don't reduce their net income using a tax cut, because their entire industry is getting the tax cut. The company's market price is tied to how their NI compares to the rest of their respective industry NI. Stock repurchases are filed on the balance sheet, post taxes, which is why companies take the increase in net income but then use the extra cash to buy back stock. The former keeps the company competitive and the latter increases the stock price.
  - 8y ago
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  "The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits." Not really. There have been a lot of stories of companies offering one time bonuses to employees, despite the tax cuts being ongoing. And historically, windfalls like that have been used mainly to benefit the higher ups in the company, instead of the workers.
- rconti 8y ago
  Lots of one-time bonuses. I haven't seen nearly as much (any?) about across the board wage increases. And it's not like Wal-Mart was hurting for money before. They could have raised pay before. Or they could have kept the tax cut money and paid it out to owners. So I'm not convinced. The tighter labor market makes a lot more sense.

by sykh 8y ago

I didn't downvote but jeremyt's statement is without evidence. It's certainly plausible that the statement could be correct but there really isn't any evidence given to support it.

reaperducer 8y ago

> jeremyt's statement is without evidence The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits. While there's currently no specific press release linking Wal-mart's actions with the tax change, it certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility (and HN-class conclusion jumping).

sykh 8y ago
I guess I read different news than you. I’ve read that most of the money is going toward stock buybacks. The pressure on wages is coming from a tighter labor market. That’s what I’ve read but I don’t know enough to say one way or the other. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/now-we-know-where-the-tax-cut-is-going-share-buybacks-2018-02-22 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/now-we-know-where-the-tax-... http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/09/news/companies/tax-cut-bonuses-buybacks/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/09/news/companies/tax-cut-bonus...
- reaperducer 8y ago
  You are correct that there have been stock buybacks, as well. But I'm not sure it counts as "most." First, of the companies that are doing stock buybacks, not all are doing only stock buybacks. Many are doing other things as well. Second, there's a whole great big world out there called "local news" where you'll see these stories that aren't covered by CNN, Marketwatch, CNBC, etc... Yes, some big companies are doing stock buybacks, but there's a lot more going on in the business world than the Fortune 500.
  - sykh 8y ago
    Well from one of the articles I referenced: This follows a report by benefits consulting firm Aon Hewitt finding that 83% of large companies don’t expect the tax cut to boost salaries at all — just help pay for small bonuses companies like WalMart WMT, +1.98% and AT&T T, +0.70% gave workers, which reporters soon discovered were, themselves, skewed toward higher-paid, longer-tenured employees in many cases. However one feels about the issue my point still stands. Th comment that started this thread gave no supporting evidence for the claim and thus deserved to be downvoted. Also the article we are all nominally commenting on is about Walmart which is a Fortune 500 company. Is its tuition plan because of the Trump tax cuts?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pktgen 8y ago
> The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits. No, there have been dozens or hundreds of companies claiming that tax cuts were responsible for employee compensation increases. Many of those were one-time bonuses, but the tax cuts are ongoing. In some cases where the benefits were ongoing (like Walmart's hourly pay increase), you'll find that they tend to coincide with the overall trend of state minimum wage increases. This is just PR: they're getting ahead of the trend and trying to attribute it to tax cuts rather than other forces. Also, since employee compensation was tax-deductible even before the tax cut, taxes certainly weren't stopping companies from raising wages before the tax cut.
- bduerst 8y ago
  Pretty much. Companies are using the tax cuts to signal goodwill to the market, but in reality the temporary increase in benefits is an expense coming from pre-tax income. The tax cuts are causing increased employee benefits is a red herring.
- gowld 8y ago
  No, tax deductions are not tax credits. Suppose the company is targeting $100 net profit, and has $200 income available, before taxes and "bonus wages". At 20% tax rate, the company can pay $75 in deductible wages, plus ($(200-75)0.2) $25 in tax At 10% tax rate, the company can pay $89 in deductible wages, plus ($(200-89)0.1) = $11 in tax. Lower taxes enables higher wages.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    That's not quite how it works. Publicly-traded companies don't reduce their net income using a tax cut, because their entire industry is getting the tax cut. The company's market price is tied to how their NI compares to the rest of their respective industry NI. Stock repurchases are filed on the balance sheet, post taxes, which is why companies take the increase in net income but then use the extra cash to buy back stock. The former keeps the company competitive and the latter increases the stock price.
- 8y ago
s73v3r_ 8y ago
"The news has been full of dozens (maybe hundreds by now) of large and small companies using the tax change to increase employee wages and benefits." Not really. There have been a lot of stories of companies offering one time bonuses to employees, despite the tax cuts being ongoing. And historically, windfalls like that have been used mainly to benefit the higher ups in the company, instead of the workers.
rconti 8y ago
Lots of one-time bonuses. I haven't seen nearly as much (any?) about across the board wage increases. And it's not like Wal-Mart was hurting for money before. They could have raised pay before. Or they could have kept the tax cut money and paid it out to owners. So I'm not convinced. The tighter labor market makes a lot more sense.