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In what way was the murder staging required to save this man's life? Edit: removed unnecessary language sympathetic to one side or another

Const-me 8y ago
As far as I understood (I speak both Ukrainian and Russian languages) it was necessary to gather solid evidence against the organizer of the crime, who paid for the assassination of the journalist. The would-be assassin was an undercover Ukrainian agent, and he’ll be one of the key witnesses in the criminal case that will follow. Locking the organizer up will save more than one man’s life, both directly (other people who’s killing he might have organized in the future) and indirectly (because of the media coverage of this case, the price tag might raise a lot).
- mhneu 8y ago
  Wow. If this was a sting that implicates Russia in paying for assassinating the journalist -- wow.
  - Const-me 8y ago
    The survived journalist has told to the press the organizer has gave the “assassin” the journalist’s photo identical to the photo in his Russian passport. I’m not a lawyer but that looks like an indirect evidence pointing towards Russian government.
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    It’s not in any way a secret that Russia kills journalists. The Russian state has been doing it for a very long time and shows no sign of stopping. Have a look at this list. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_i...
varjag 8y ago
Assassin was cooperating at the time of "assassination", they were going for the customer.
consumer451 8y ago
Yes, this was a really bad PR call. They literally created "fake news" about Russia, when you don't need to create anything fake to make the Kremlin look bad. This is really bone-headed.
- tdb7893 8y ago
  Why was it a bad PR call? Russia literally hired someone to kill him, the only thing fake was him actually dying
  - consumer451 8y ago
    > Why was it a bad PR call? Because the invasion of Ukraine is pretty under-reported. This recent story may cause news agencies to pass on reporting on the issue in the future, as now there is a clear example of the authorities passing false narratives. This diminishes what should be the goal, spreading the news of Russia invading Eastern Europe and killing 10,000+ Eastern Europeans. > the only thing fake was him actually dying Yes, but the general headline of the previous stories was "Reporter murdered" Take the example of having posted this story in a news forum, like Reddit, and getting lots of upvotes. A few days later it turns out the crux of the story "Reporter murdered" is actually not true. How likely are you going to post stories involving this narrative in the future? Don't you have a bitter taste in your mouth from the whole thing? I would imagine that reporters who's names are on the original "Reporter murdered" stories may also have a bitter taste in their mouth.
  - consumer451 8y ago
    Since it is too late to edit my original comment, I want to retract my tone and ham-handedness. Having escaped Russian rule as a child, this all gets me worked up. Sorry HN.
  - consumer451 8y ago
    Just wanted to follow up on this. Looks like I was not the only one to have these thoughts. >That drew criticism from media and commentators abroad who questioned whether the ruse and the false outpouring of grief and finger-pointing at Russia it provoked had undermined credibility in Kiev and handing the Kremlin a propaganda gift. >One senior EU country diplomat who attended Friday’s meeting said Lutsenko had given a convincing explanation to justify the means Ukraine had employed. >“I’m happy, others are happier than before. I’d say it was the right thing to,” the diplomat told Reuters, adding that Lutsenko did “acknowledge that the media reaction came as a surprise and that side should have been handled better.” >Separately two television presenters based in Ukraine, one Russian and one Ukrainian, disclosed publicly that the Ukrainian authorities had shown them evidence of being on Russia’s hit list and were now living under state protection. >A senior European Union official involved in Ukraine said the staged murder could undermine trust in Kiev if the government did not come forward quickly with evidence of what they claimed and the plot’s links to Russia. source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-journalist/we-found-russian-hit-list-of-47-people-ukraine-tells-allies-idUSKCN1IX5SO https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-journalist...
josephjrobison 8y ago
The only thing I was thinking was that they wanted to test Russia's reaction to it for a day. I agree with you it probably wasn't necessary, but reads like a great spy novel.
giarc 8y ago
My understanding of this paragraph [1] was that it was the Russia's saying he staged his death, not the Ukrainians or the journalist himself. I could be wrong though. 1- The Russian foreign ministry said in a statement it was happy that Mr Babchenko was alive. Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the staged murder was done for "propagandistic effect", Russia's Interfax news agency reported.
- shkkmo 8y ago
  The jounalist and ukranians are saying his death was staged to catch the organizer / protect the journalists life. Russia seems to be saying that they staged it as propaganda and there was no real attempt on his life.
  - giarc 8y ago
    The content of the article has changed dramatically since it was first posted here and when I commented. It's now clear the murder was staged. At the time that wasn't clear.
dghughes 8y ago
You see stories like this all the time from the US. A spouse hires a hitman to kill their partner but the hitman is an undercover police officer. The police stage the death and show the result to the spouse who confirms their wishes were carried out. Then surprise! Their partner is alive. I cant imagine what it's like to have an entire nation after you. I'd say the plot uncovered was put into play maybe Russia puts out a general call to any hitman to kill a target for them so Russia may not know who it was that did it. But now I think we may be back to square one his wife may actually want to kill him now.
- mynameisvlad 8y ago
  Do you? Because I have never heard of this being a thing outside of "The Whole Nine Yards".
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=tried+to+hire+hitman https://www.google.com/search?q=tried+to+hire+hitman indicates it's depressingly common. This one's my favorite, I think: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/11/utah-woman-found-guilty-for-trying-to-hire-hit-man-charged-with-same-crime-for-third-time.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/11/utah-woman-found-guilty... While in jail for hiring a hitman, she attempted to put out a hit on the fake hitman. After that failed, she tried to take out a witness and an attorney!

Const-me 8y ago

As far as I understood (I speak both Ukrainian and Russian languages) it was necessary to gather solid evidence against the organizer of the crime, who paid for the assassination of the journalist. The would-be assassin was an undercover Ukrainian agent, and he’ll be one of the key witnesses in the criminal case that will follow. Locking the organizer up will save more than one man’s life, both directly (other people who’s killing he might have organized in the future) and indirectly (because of the media coverage of this case, the price tag might raise a lot).

mhneu 8y ago
Wow. If this was a sting that implicates Russia in paying for assassinating the journalist -- wow.
- Const-me 8y ago
  The survived journalist has told to the press the organizer has gave the “assassin” the journalist’s photo identical to the photo in his Russian passport. I’m not a lawyer but that looks like an indirect evidence pointing towards Russian government.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  It’s not in any way a secret that Russia kills journalists. The Russian state has been doing it for a very long time and shows no sign of stopping. Have a look at this list. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_i...

varjag 8y ago

Assassin was cooperating at the time of "assassination", they were going for the customer.

consumer451 8y ago

Yes, this was a really bad PR call. They literally created "fake news" about Russia, when you don't need to create anything fake to make the Kremlin look bad. This is really bone-headed.

tdb7893 8y ago
Why was it a bad PR call? Russia literally hired someone to kill him, the only thing fake was him actually dying
- consumer451 8y ago
  > Why was it a bad PR call? Because the invasion of Ukraine is pretty under-reported. This recent story may cause news agencies to pass on reporting on the issue in the future, as now there is a clear example of the authorities passing false narratives. This diminishes what should be the goal, spreading the news of Russia invading Eastern Europe and killing 10,000+ Eastern Europeans. > the only thing fake was him actually dying Yes, but the general headline of the previous stories was "Reporter murdered" Take the example of having posted this story in a news forum, like Reddit, and getting lots of upvotes. A few days later it turns out the crux of the story "Reporter murdered" is actually not true. How likely are you going to post stories involving this narrative in the future? Don't you have a bitter taste in your mouth from the whole thing? I would imagine that reporters who's names are on the original "Reporter murdered" stories may also have a bitter taste in their mouth.
- consumer451 8y ago
  Since it is too late to edit my original comment, I want to retract my tone and ham-handedness. Having escaped Russian rule as a child, this all gets me worked up. Sorry HN.
- consumer451 8y ago
  Just wanted to follow up on this. Looks like I was not the only one to have these thoughts. >That drew criticism from media and commentators abroad who questioned whether the ruse and the false outpouring of grief and finger-pointing at Russia it provoked had undermined credibility in Kiev and handing the Kremlin a propaganda gift. >One senior EU country diplomat who attended Friday’s meeting said Lutsenko had given a convincing explanation to justify the means Ukraine had employed. >“I’m happy, others are happier than before. I’d say it was the right thing to,” the diplomat told Reuters, adding that Lutsenko did “acknowledge that the media reaction came as a surprise and that side should have been handled better.” >Separately two television presenters based in Ukraine, one Russian and one Ukrainian, disclosed publicly that the Ukrainian authorities had shown them evidence of being on Russia’s hit list and were now living under state protection. >A senior European Union official involved in Ukraine said the staged murder could undermine trust in Kiev if the government did not come forward quickly with evidence of what they claimed and the plot’s links to Russia. source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-journalist/we-found-russian-hit-list-of-47-people-ukraine-tells-allies-idUSKCN1IX5SO https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-journalist...

josephjrobison 8y ago

The only thing I was thinking was that they wanted to test Russia's reaction to it for a day. I agree with you it probably wasn't necessary, but reads like a great spy novel.

giarc 8y ago

My understanding of this paragraph [1] was that it was the Russia's saying he staged his death, not the Ukrainians or the journalist himself. I could be wrong though. 1- The Russian foreign ministry said in a statement it was happy that Mr Babchenko was alive. Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the staged murder was done for "propagandistic effect", Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

shkkmo 8y ago
The jounalist and ukranians are saying his death was staged to catch the organizer / protect the journalists life. Russia seems to be saying that they staged it as propaganda and there was no real attempt on his life.
- giarc 8y ago
  The content of the article has changed dramatically since it was first posted here and when I commented. It's now clear the murder was staged. At the time that wasn't clear.

dghughes 8y ago

You see stories like this all the time from the US. A spouse hires a hitman to kill their partner but the hitman is an undercover police officer. The police stage the death and show the result to the spouse who confirms their wishes were carried out. Then surprise! Their partner is alive. I cant imagine what it's like to have an entire nation after you. I'd say the plot uncovered was put into play maybe Russia puts out a general call to any hitman to kill a target for them so Russia may not know who it was that did it. But now I think we may be back to square one his wife may actually want to kill him now.

mynameisvlad 8y ago
Do you? Because I have never heard of this being a thing outside of "The Whole Nine Yards".
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=tried+to+hire+hitman https://www.google.com/search?q=tried+to+hire+hitman indicates it's depressingly common. This one's my favorite, I think: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/11/utah-woman-found-guilty-for-trying-to-hire-hit-man-charged-with-same-crime-for-third-time.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/11/utah-woman-found-guilty... While in jail for hiring a hitman, she attempted to put out a hit on the fake hitman. After that failed, she tried to take out a witness and an attorney!