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There doesn't appear to be anything new about this, ground-source heat pumps have been available for domestic use for quite some time. And going by the name, an

There doesn't appear to be anything new about this, ground-source heat pumps have been available for domestic use for quite some time. And going by the name, and looks, it's actually an air-source heat-pump, but I could be wrong.

mxuribe 8y ago
I had heard that these types of systems existed/were used in places like Iceland (or was it Sweden?)...But I wasn't aware they could be leveraged in areas where there might not be as much underground geothermal activity. Unless, I'm misunderstanding what dependencies are needed for these types of systems to work. In any case, if this is not new, any competition to the way we heat/cool our homes - assuming it brings lower prices/more options - is welcomed!
- lbriner 8y ago
  Geo-thermal is a little misleading because the systems you are talking about use very high temperatures found in volcanic parts of the world, which is obviously pretty easy. A ground source heat pump only requires 10 degrees or more of heat difference, easily found 30 metres below ground in most moderate temperature countries - it then uses the same technology as air-conditioning. Loads of them are already installed in the UK.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  They don't rely on any special geological phenomena. They work like a regular air conditioner or heat pump (compressor, refrigerant, condenser, evaporator) but instead of pumping heat to/from the outside air, they pump it to/from the ground. The advantage is that, while the outside air is almost always the wrong temperature (hot in the summer when your pump needs it to absorb heat, cold in the winter when you need to pull heat out of it), the ground is basically always the right temperature. The disadvantage is install costs because you have to put piping underground by either trenching or drilling.
- dougb 8y ago
  They don't depend on geothermal activity. They depend on the relatively constant temp of the ground below the freeze line. In most places if you go down a few feet the earth is 40-50 degrees F. Its basically a heat pump that uses water instead of air. My sister outside of Pittsburgh, PA has had a https://www.waterfurnace.com https://www.waterfurnace.com for 17 years. Her system has paid for itself a few times over. She has 1500 ft of plastic tubing burried in her front yard.
- brookhaven_dude 8y ago
  There is at least one old house right here in Atlanta, GA that uses geo-thermal.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  Iceland gets a pretty nice chunk of their power from geothermal, and the cost effectiveness of geothermal power on a volcanic island (combined with a cold air temp that makes cooling easy) makes it a remarkably cheap place to mine bitcoin, as the case happens. Another fun thing made possible by geothermal: Some roads and sidewalks in Reykjavik are actually heated to prevent icing over. (And before someone says it: Yes, Greenland is colder, but Iceland still gets pretty freaking cold. After walking two miles or so in an Icelandic blizzard once, I feel like I can claim some expertise on the subject.)
sp332 8y ago
Dandelion uses a cheaper drilling method to reduce up-front costs. https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a
- sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
  I'm curious how much this affects the price. I'm not a homeowner any more, but when I was, I longed to replace my furnace with a ground-source heat pump. It is not too much of an efficiency win over gas for heating, especially since we used little heat, but it's great for cooling. But I was really put off by the price. There was no way to justify it even under the most pessimistic assumptions about energy prices, except perhaps if my furnace and AC were to break at the same time.
  - Retric 8y ago
    I think cost is the biggest issue. If you want to reduce heating and cooling costs via investments then insulation + solar can cheaply make a huge difference. Ground source scales well if you have a large building and a large body of water near by then the payback time is short. But at single family home level it's just not that useful.
    - sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
      That's not what my analysis showed. It has a payback period of 5-10 years depending on your assumptions, assuming new construction. Shorter period the more extreme the climate, longer in places like Norcal. Retrofitting though is a different story (higher cost -> longer payback).
      - Retric 8y ago
        If your further north compare it to solar hot water heater systems which cost ~3.5k self installed about double for someone else to add it to new construction. Further south solar systems have below your 5-10 year payback period.
    - 8y ago
jpao79 8y ago
If geothermal has indeed been available for quite some time and the finances work out for the US consumer, BUT there has been no significant US consumer adoption, shouldn't we be applauding Dandelion and Google for using the Google brand awareness to drive awareness around and shining the light on this proven, environmentally and economically sustainable technology? Even better if the existing geothermal and utility incumbents rise to the challenge and out-market and out-engineering naive Google to drive even greater adoption of sustainable tech!
- jacknews 8y ago
  :applause Seriously, it's a great idea and a shame it hasn't been adopted more widely. I would take issue with their terminology though. To me, geothermal energy is extracting energy from hotspots in the earths's crust, as in Iceland, hot springs, and so on. This is just using the stable temperatures below the surface as a source/sink for a heat-pump - no energy is being extracted. Hence ground-source heat-pump.

mxuribe 8y ago

I had heard that these types of systems existed/were used in places like Iceland (or was it Sweden?)...But I wasn't aware they could be leveraged in areas where there might not be as much underground geothermal activity. Unless, I'm misunderstanding what dependencies are needed for these types of systems to work. In any case, if this is not new, any competition to the way we heat/cool our homes - assuming it brings lower prices/more options - is welcomed!

lbriner 8y ago
Geo-thermal is a little misleading because the systems you are talking about use very high temperatures found in volcanic parts of the world, which is obviously pretty easy. A ground source heat pump only requires 10 degrees or more of heat difference, easily found 30 metres below ground in most moderate temperature countries - it then uses the same technology as air-conditioning. Loads of them are already installed in the UK.
adrianmonk 8y ago
They don't rely on any special geological phenomena. They work like a regular air conditioner or heat pump (compressor, refrigerant, condenser, evaporator) but instead of pumping heat to/from the outside air, they pump it to/from the ground. The advantage is that, while the outside air is almost always the wrong temperature (hot in the summer when your pump needs it to absorb heat, cold in the winter when you need to pull heat out of it), the ground is basically always the right temperature. The disadvantage is install costs because you have to put piping underground by either trenching or drilling.
dougb 8y ago
They don't depend on geothermal activity. They depend on the relatively constant temp of the ground below the freeze line. In most places if you go down a few feet the earth is 40-50 degrees F. Its basically a heat pump that uses water instead of air. My sister outside of Pittsburgh, PA has had a https://www.waterfurnace.com https://www.waterfurnace.com for 17 years. Her system has paid for itself a few times over. She has 1500 ft of plastic tubing burried in her front yard.
brookhaven_dude 8y ago
There is at least one old house right here in Atlanta, GA that uses geo-thermal.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Iceland gets a pretty nice chunk of their power from geothermal, and the cost effectiveness of geothermal power on a volcanic island (combined with a cold air temp that makes cooling easy) makes it a remarkably cheap place to mine bitcoin, as the case happens. Another fun thing made possible by geothermal: Some roads and sidewalks in Reykjavik are actually heated to prevent icing over. (And before someone says it: Yes, Greenland is colder, but Iceland still gets pretty freaking cold. After walking two miles or so in an Icelandic blizzard once, I feel like I can claim some expertise on the subject.)

sp332 8y ago

Dandelion uses a cheaper drilling method to reduce up-front costs. https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a https://blog.x.company/introducing-dandelion-2706eded169a

sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
I'm curious how much this affects the price. I'm not a homeowner any more, but when I was, I longed to replace my furnace with a ground-source heat pump. It is not too much of an efficiency win over gas for heating, especially since we used little heat, but it's great for cooling. But I was really put off by the price. There was no way to justify it even under the most pessimistic assumptions about energy prices, except perhaps if my furnace and AC were to break at the same time.
- Retric 8y ago
  I think cost is the biggest issue. If you want to reduce heating and cooling costs via investments then insulation + solar can cheaply make a huge difference. Ground source scales well if you have a large building and a large body of water near by then the payback time is short. But at single family home level it's just not that useful.
  - sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
    That's not what my analysis showed. It has a payback period of 5-10 years depending on your assumptions, assuming new construction. Shorter period the more extreme the climate, longer in places like Norcal. Retrofitting though is a different story (higher cost -> longer payback).
    - Retric 8y ago
      If your further north compare it to solar hot water heater systems which cost ~3.5k self installed about double for someone else to add it to new construction. Further south solar systems have below your 5-10 year payback period.
  - 8y ago

jpao79 8y ago

If geothermal has indeed been available for quite some time and the finances work out for the US consumer, BUT there has been no significant US consumer adoption, shouldn't we be applauding Dandelion and Google for using the Google brand awareness to drive awareness around and shining the light on this proven, environmentally and economically sustainable technology? Even better if the existing geothermal and utility incumbents rise to the challenge and out-market and out-engineering naive Google to drive even greater adoption of sustainable tech!

jacknews 8y ago
:applause Seriously, it's a great idea and a shame it hasn't been adopted more widely. I would take issue with their terminology though. To me, geothermal energy is extracting energy from hotspots in the earths's crust, as in Iceland, hot springs, and so on. This is just using the stable temperatures below the surface as a source/sink for a heat-pump - no energy is being extracted. Hence ground-source heat-pump.