6 ms·

Not everything is about money though. Want to have an extravagant wedding? Fine. Want something basic? Also fine. Yes: diamonds, jewellery, mechanical watches

Not everything is about money though. Want to have an extravagant wedding? Fine. Want something basic? Also fine. Yes: diamonds, jewellery, mechanical watches etc are all bad value for money. People don't buy them because they're bad value. They buy them because they like wearing them, and women buy jewellery because it makes them feel pretty. That's life. It's fine throwing money away sometime.

darkcha0s 8y ago
>mechanical watches [...] are all bad value for money Citation needed. Seriously, mechanical watches can be a great investment if you know what you are buying.
- tgb 8y ago
  I think the meaning was in terms of a time keeping device not as a value store. The cheapest Walmart watch keeps time significantly better than the most expensive mechanic watch and many will last years of use.
koolba 8y ago
> That's life. It's fine throwing money away sometime. Sure if you have the money. The problem is that most people don’t and spend what would be a down payment on a house on complete bullshit. It’s a terrible way to start a marriage and likely leads to higher rates of divorce.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  That strikes me as a problem with fiscal irresponsibility, not a problem with the object of the irresponsibility.
  - koolba 8y ago
    It's by far the biggest example of fiscal irresponsibility. What's particularly egregious is when the families of the bride (_cough_ her mother _cough_) or groom push them towards spending they can't afford. The wedding industry preys on those weak emotions knowing that many couples won't push back on the non-sense.
    - cf498 8y ago
      Weddings are a good example of horrible vicious social pressure depending on where you live. Too much of this is similar to "The child of a proper family marries at a certain age and gets a proper wedding".
      - koolba 8y ago
        > Weddings are a good example of horrible vicious social pressure depending on where you live. Fight the power! Be the change! > Too much of this is similar to "The child of a proper family marries at a certain age and gets a proper wedding". Getting married "at a certain age" (i.e. young) isn't necessarily a bad thing. On the contrary, I'd argue that being a parent (or grandparent!) while you're still young, active, and in good health is a wonderful thing. It's blindly succumbing to social pressure to make financially disastrous decisions that must be avoided. Go ahead an have a wedding party too, but do it on your terms.
        cf498 8y ago
        The emphasis is on "proper", i.e. the pressure to do that at the socially required age in the expected fashion to proof your worth, which you find in different versions throughout large parts of the world. Be it most blatantly the shaming of older unmarried women in Chinese society or more practically arranged marriages of young girls in rural middle eastern areas. Honor killings are just the crassest and most publicized method to uphold the second tradition, but if you read reports of women who went through this, the first part is always brutal social pressure by the direct family including "asking" and begging by their own mothers. Never underestimate the viciousness of parents who think they are pushing their children to do the "right" thing and are not above making this their first priority. If I caught someone in my family pulling crap like continually pressuring spouses to spend above their means and force them into debt with that line of argument they will likely have to reevaluate whether they might be better off without me in their life. A lot of people sadly only realize this after they see family members trying to do the same thing to the next generation. Differently put, depending on how much grandma doesnt understand the word "no stop it" she wont be coming over for the holidays anymore.
Antimachides 8y ago
Not fine with me. If a girl wanted a diamond ring and/or and extravagant wedding I'd dump her. Materialistic, low IQ and shallow. Though that's what most people are, I suppose.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  You must be a catch. Depends what you're looking for in life, I guess. There's a difference between shopping until you drop, and giving the woman you love the occasional gift to show that you love and appreciate her. Yes, it's not required, you don't _NEED_ expensive jewellery or fancy weddings, but if you have excess money that you are not investing, why not? On the flipside, I also like getting nice gifts. Don't you?
  - Antimachides 8y ago
    Give her a blood diamond to show my affection? No thanks. I'm not brainwashed to think love is suitably communicated through the purchase of goods and services. Excess money not being invested? By golly I better not use it for any form of good; it must obviously go to De Beers! Just tell someone you love them and do nice things for them and be there for them. It's free.
    - charlesdm 8y ago
      It's not, and it doesn't need to be a diamond -- it could be flowers, a nice dinner, a exciting getaway together to some obscure place, etc. But the way you're expressing this is you'd laugh someone away for buying something for you. I'm into mechanical watches. Just because I find them interesting, not for show. I'm not brainwashed, but heck, getting one I really want from someone I love would be close to the ultimate gift. Do I need it? Of course not. Do I expect it? Of course not.
      - Antimachides 8y ago
        I was talking about diamonds and extravagence desired purely to display wealth and social status (women are particularly vulnerable to this folly), not dinner dates, flowers, and mechanical watches. Like the two month salary rule for an engagement ring would be a ludicrous thing to expect of a man. Run from that woman.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
comicjk 8y ago
Besides the fact that most people don't have any savings cushion, making this terrible advice for them, you're neglecting the social pressure aspect. Many people feel compelled to overspend on weddings by the expectations of their friends, family, and society. Discussions like this one help to ease that pressure, to allow people to make wedding decisions with less fear of what people will think.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  I'm just saying: go for what you want. You don't really have to do anything in life -- it's all up for debate. If I had plenty of money and nothing more important to spend it on, I'd (personally) go for a crazy fun extravagant wedding. If not, then I wouldn't. If you have no savings, obviously don't spend a ton on a wedding...
throwawaymath 8y ago
Yes, you're right. I don't understand the myopia on this forum when it comes to people spending money irrationally. Human beings are not hyper-efficient savings maximization engines. Every time the story about why "diamonds suck" hits the front page (maybe once a year or so?), the same rounds of patting-on-the-back are exchanged in the comments for rehashing a one-dimensional social commentary that buying diamonds is silly. Yes of course it's silly! But that's not the point, and it never has been. Once you're at the point of buying a gift that costs far more than its intrinsic, utilitarian value, worrying about its "true scarcity" is just haggling on the details. I purchased an engagement ring for my wife that costed about $30,000. She didn't ask for anything remotely as extravagant as that, but she likes it and I enjoy it for frankly vain reasons. I take immense pleasure out of the reactions it elicits from other people. Despite being very clear-eyed about the artificial scarcity of diamonds and DeBeers marketing, I still bought it because I enjoyed being able to make a frivolous purchase. Personally I don't like spending a lot on things that aren't either experiential or somewhat long-lasting, so I'd never spend much at all on a wedding dress. But I don't begrudge people for spending money inefficiently if they can afford it. We're all the same species. With very few exceptions, none of us is hyper-vigilant, hyper-rational or hyper-efficient. There are many, many things we idly buy which are artificially scarce or inflated in price. Buying them is not categorically different from buying expensive jewelry under a cultural zeitgeist perpetuated by a global conglomerate. I think most people really don't have much self-awareness about how high their floor of wealth and personal spending is over the ceiling of frugality and efficiency they talk about so much.
- theunixbeard 8y ago
  Are you an entrepreneur with a profitable business or successful exit? If not, 30K might represent 6-12 months of personal runway to build your own business.
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    He's not going to buy his wife a $30k engagement ring if he's earning $30k a year...
quadyeast 8y ago
Is it something you really want or is it expected of you? Do you really want to enrich debeers? Buy a 2K wedding cake?
- charlesdm 8y ago
  I would negotiate down the listing price significantly -- i.e. 20 to 35% depending on the item (I.e. $30k ring like post made above) and the price. Alternatively I would get a custom piece designed.

darkcha0s 8y ago

>mechanical watches [...] are all bad value for money Citation needed. Seriously, mechanical watches can be a great investment if you know what you are buying.

tgb 8y ago
I think the meaning was in terms of a time keeping device not as a value store. The cheapest Walmart watch keeps time significantly better than the most expensive mechanic watch and many will last years of use.

koolba 8y ago

> That's life. It's fine throwing money away sometime. Sure if you have the money. The problem is that most people don’t and spend what would be a down payment on a house on complete bullshit. It’s a terrible way to start a marriage and likely leads to higher rates of divorce.

throwawaymath 8y ago
That strikes me as a problem with fiscal irresponsibility, not a problem with the object of the irresponsibility.
- koolba 8y ago
  It's by far the biggest example of fiscal irresponsibility. What's particularly egregious is when the families of the bride (_cough_ her mother _cough_) or groom push them towards spending they can't afford. The wedding industry preys on those weak emotions knowing that many couples won't push back on the non-sense.
  - cf498 8y ago
    Weddings are a good example of horrible vicious social pressure depending on where you live. Too much of this is similar to "The child of a proper family marries at a certain age and gets a proper wedding".
    - koolba 8y ago
      > Weddings are a good example of horrible vicious social pressure depending on where you live. Fight the power! Be the change! > Too much of this is similar to "The child of a proper family marries at a certain age and gets a proper wedding". Getting married "at a certain age" (i.e. young) isn't necessarily a bad thing. On the contrary, I'd argue that being a parent (or grandparent!) while you're still young, active, and in good health is a wonderful thing. It's blindly succumbing to social pressure to make financially disastrous decisions that must be avoided. Go ahead an have a wedding party too, but do it on your terms.
      - cf498 8y ago
        The emphasis is on "proper", i.e. the pressure to do that at the socially required age in the expected fashion to proof your worth, which you find in different versions throughout large parts of the world. Be it most blatantly the shaming of older unmarried women in Chinese society or more practically arranged marriages of young girls in rural middle eastern areas. Honor killings are just the crassest and most publicized method to uphold the second tradition, but if you read reports of women who went through this, the first part is always brutal social pressure by the direct family including "asking" and begging by their own mothers. Never underestimate the viciousness of parents who think they are pushing their children to do the "right" thing and are not above making this their first priority. If I caught someone in my family pulling crap like continually pressuring spouses to spend above their means and force them into debt with that line of argument they will likely have to reevaluate whether they might be better off without me in their life. A lot of people sadly only realize this after they see family members trying to do the same thing to the next generation. Differently put, depending on how much grandma doesnt understand the word "no stop it" she wont be coming over for the holidays anymore.

Antimachides 8y ago

Not fine with me. If a girl wanted a diamond ring and/or and extravagant wedding I'd dump her. Materialistic, low IQ and shallow. Though that's what most people are, I suppose.

charlesdm 8y ago
You must be a catch. Depends what you're looking for in life, I guess. There's a difference between shopping until you drop, and giving the woman you love the occasional gift to show that you love and appreciate her. Yes, it's not required, you don't _NEED_ expensive jewellery or fancy weddings, but if you have excess money that you are not investing, why not? On the flipside, I also like getting nice gifts. Don't you?
- Antimachides 8y ago
  Give her a blood diamond to show my affection? No thanks. I'm not brainwashed to think love is suitably communicated through the purchase of goods and services. Excess money not being invested? By golly I better not use it for any form of good; it must obviously go to De Beers! Just tell someone you love them and do nice things for them and be there for them. It's free.
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    It's not, and it doesn't need to be a diamond -- it could be flowers, a nice dinner, a exciting getaway together to some obscure place, etc. But the way you're expressing this is you'd laugh someone away for buying something for you. I'm into mechanical watches. Just because I find them interesting, not for show. I'm not brainwashed, but heck, getting one I really want from someone I love would be close to the ultimate gift. Do I need it? Of course not. Do I expect it? Of course not.
    - Antimachides 8y ago
      I was talking about diamonds and extravagence desired purely to display wealth and social status (women are particularly vulnerable to this folly), not dinner dates, flowers, and mechanical watches. Like the two month salary rule for an engagement ring would be a ludicrous thing to expect of a man. Run from that woman.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

comicjk 8y ago

Besides the fact that most people don't have any savings cushion, making this terrible advice for them, you're neglecting the social pressure aspect. Many people feel compelled to overspend on weddings by the expectations of their friends, family, and society. Discussions like this one help to ease that pressure, to allow people to make wedding decisions with less fear of what people will think.

charlesdm 8y ago
I'm just saying: go for what you want. You don't really have to do anything in life -- it's all up for debate. If I had plenty of money and nothing more important to spend it on, I'd (personally) go for a crazy fun extravagant wedding. If not, then I wouldn't. If you have no savings, obviously don't spend a ton on a wedding...

throwawaymath 8y ago

Yes, you're right. I don't understand the myopia on this forum when it comes to people spending money irrationally. Human beings are not hyper-efficient savings maximization engines. Every time the story about why "diamonds suck" hits the front page (maybe once a year or so?), the same rounds of patting-on-the-back are exchanged in the comments for rehashing a one-dimensional social commentary that buying diamonds is silly. Yes of course it's silly! But that's not the point, and it never has been. Once you're at the point of buying a gift that costs far more than its intrinsic, utilitarian value, worrying about its "true scarcity" is just haggling on the details. I purchased an engagement ring for my wife that costed about $30,000. She didn't ask for anything remotely as extravagant as that, but she likes it and I enjoy it for frankly vain reasons. I take immense pleasure out of the reactions it elicits from other people. Despite being very clear-eyed about the artificial scarcity of diamonds and DeBeers marketing, I still bought it because I enjoyed being able to make a frivolous purchase. Personally I don't like spending a lot on things that aren't either experiential or somewhat long-lasting, so I'd never spend much at all on a wedding dress. But I don't begrudge people for spending money inefficiently if they can afford it. We're all the same species. With very few exceptions, none of us is hyper-vigilant, hyper-rational or hyper-efficient. There are many, many things we idly buy which are artificially scarce or inflated in price. Buying them is not categorically different from buying expensive jewelry under a cultural zeitgeist perpetuated by a global conglomerate. I think most people really don't have much self-awareness about how high their floor of wealth and personal spending is over the ceiling of frugality and efficiency they talk about so much.

theunixbeard 8y ago
Are you an entrepreneur with a profitable business or successful exit? If not, 30K might represent 6-12 months of personal runway to build your own business.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  He's not going to buy his wife a $30k engagement ring if he's earning $30k a year...

quadyeast 8y ago

Is it something you really want or is it expected of you? Do you really want to enrich debeers? Buy a 2K wedding cake?

charlesdm 8y ago
I would negotiate down the listing price significantly -- i.e. 20 to 35% depending on the item (I.e. $30k ring like post made above) and the price. Alternatively I would get a custom piece designed.