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Have you got a specific case for [3]? I couldn't find anything in the original "A Tragic Loss" post that would indicaate that AEB gets disabled when autopilot i

Have you got a specific case for [3]? I couldn't find anything in the original "A Tragic Loss" post that would indicaate that AEB gets disabled when autopilot is off. This is the first I've heard of this behaviour and I'd like to find out more. I was thinking about getting a Model 3...

niftich 8y ago
My source for that assertion is from this different, April 2016 incident [1]. Relevant quote from the article: "In contrast, Tesla says that the vehicle logs show that its adaptive cruise control system is not to blame. Data points to Simpson hitting the brake pedal and deactivating autopilot and traffic aware cruise control, returning the car to manual control instantly. (This has been industry-wide practice for cruise control systems for many years.) Simpson's use of the brake also apparently disengaged the automatic emergency braking system, something that's been standard across Tesla's range since it rolled out firmware version 6.2 last year." [1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-teslas-autopilot-failed-to-brake-tesla-says-otherwise/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-tes...
- kbenson 8y ago
  > > In Tesla's particular case, the opt-in UX was even worse, because its automatic emergency braking wouldn't engage if autopilot was off > Simpson's use of the brake also apparently disengaged the automatic emergency braking system I don't think the second statement necessarily implies the first. The automatic braking system may be a secondary system to the autopilot that is also disengaged when the driver is actively using the brake system. Indeed, that is how I would expect it to function, as if the driver is actively dealing with the current condition, it is probably a bad idea to wrest control away from them. For example, how do you propose a driver would expect to stop automatic braking that happens erroneously? A quick press of the brakes or gas would be my initial guess, and what I would first try. Given that an erroneously acting auto-braking system can also cause accidents, rapid disengagement capability is important.
  - oldcynic 8y ago
    It is one thing to disable cruise control if I've gently tapped the brake pedal to deactivate. With every cruise system I've encountered that happens well before the brakes bite. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want emergency automatic braking off achieved by the same trigger. (No experience of Teslas to be certain). It is entirely another another if automatic braking or other safety features deactivate when I am scrubbing speed by "slamming on the brakes". That seems like a very bad idea. If my foot slips from the brake pedal that's one common scenario where I would indeed like emergency automatic braking.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      My point is mainly that most these assist systems are meant to work in the case the driver is not actively controlling that aspect of the vehicle. At any point the driver is trying to take a specific action, such as steer, accelerate, brake, etc, the car should cede control to the driver. If the driver is actively using the brakes, it makes sense to the auto-braking system to detect this and not engage. The last thing you want to do is wrench control away from someone that is actively operating a vehicle. There may be cases where that rule could be relaxed, and the system could engage, but it would need to be beyond all doubt.
_ph_ 8y ago
Of course AEB is available when autopilot is off, as it’s available on all Model 3, even those without autopilot.

niftich 8y ago

My source for that assertion is from this different, April 2016 incident [1]. Relevant quote from the article: "In contrast, Tesla says that the vehicle logs show that its adaptive cruise control system is not to blame. Data points to Simpson hitting the brake pedal and deactivating autopilot and traffic aware cruise control, returning the car to manual control instantly. (This has been industry-wide practice for cruise control systems for many years.) Simpson's use of the brake also apparently disengaged the automatic emergency braking system, something that's been standard across Tesla's range since it rolled out firmware version 6.2 last year." [1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-teslas-autopilot-failed-to-brake-tesla-says-otherwise/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-tes...

kbenson 8y ago
> > In Tesla's particular case, the opt-in UX was even worse, because its automatic emergency braking wouldn't engage if autopilot was off > Simpson's use of the brake also apparently disengaged the automatic emergency braking system I don't think the second statement necessarily implies the first. The automatic braking system may be a secondary system to the autopilot that is also disengaged when the driver is actively using the brake system. Indeed, that is how I would expect it to function, as if the driver is actively dealing with the current condition, it is probably a bad idea to wrest control away from them. For example, how do you propose a driver would expect to stop automatic braking that happens erroneously? A quick press of the brakes or gas would be my initial guess, and what I would first try. Given that an erroneously acting auto-braking system can also cause accidents, rapid disengagement capability is important.
- oldcynic 8y ago
  It is one thing to disable cruise control if I've gently tapped the brake pedal to deactivate. With every cruise system I've encountered that happens well before the brakes bite. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want emergency automatic braking off achieved by the same trigger. (No experience of Teslas to be certain). It is entirely another another if automatic braking or other safety features deactivate when I am scrubbing speed by "slamming on the brakes". That seems like a very bad idea. If my foot slips from the brake pedal that's one common scenario where I would indeed like emergency automatic braking.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    My point is mainly that most these assist systems are meant to work in the case the driver is not actively controlling that aspect of the vehicle. At any point the driver is trying to take a specific action, such as steer, accelerate, brake, etc, the car should cede control to the driver. If the driver is actively using the brakes, it makes sense to the auto-braking system to detect this and not engage. The last thing you want to do is wrench control away from someone that is actively operating a vehicle. There may be cases where that rule could be relaxed, and the system could engage, but it would need to be beyond all doubt.

_ph_ 8y ago

Of course AEB is available when autopilot is off, as it’s available on all Model 3, even those without autopilot.