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The Ottomans (and Turks by extension) are absolutely fascinating. Consider that from the time of the Roman Empire until the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the

The Ottomans (and Turks by extension) are absolutely fascinating. Consider that from the time of the Roman Empire until the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the Byzantines considered themselves Roman. The Turks considered themselves successors of that (Kayser-i Rum) and at various points had a territory that looked a lot like the old Empire. Of course the societies were very different, but if you try hard enough you can imagine the last vestiges of Rome finally falling after WW1. But the Turks, they were Central Asian tribes (closer to the Mongols than to Arabs or Europeans) who ended up conquering the Eastern Roman Empire (over centuries) and eventually ended up at the gates of Vienna. The amount of mixing of cultures, religions (consider the Janisseries) and races is crazy. Check out depictions of the first Ottoman Emperors compared to the last. Another example of how people are a lot more connected than we think. This was a great read: https://www.amazon.com/1453-Holy-Constantinople-Clash-Islam/dp/1401308503/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XC8QFDCFAWDQ0RCFN2HJ https://www.amazon.com/1453-Holy-Constantinople-Clash-Islam/... The Arabs, Avars, and others were besieging Constantinople in the 700s. It took another 700 years and Mehmet's use of cannon to bring the walls down and really change history. Also Manizkert and other events are interesting. Really an underrated part of history. Fun to geek out over it.

nickik 8y ago
Agree, its very interesting part of history. Since you seem interested I think this is a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9evHIafx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9evHIafx4
m00dy 8y ago
You are correct. I'm also fascinated by my history even though I'm a Turk.
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danidiaz 8y ago
The Ottoman History Podcast is consistently interesting: https://soundcloud.com/ottoman-history-podcast/tracks https://soundcloud.com/ottoman-history-podcast/tracks
mustaflex 8y ago
Although there aren't a lot of them you can search Bellini's drawings to have a sense on how people looked like around 1453. https://www.fortticonderoga.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/turkish-cloak.jpg https://www.fortticonderoga.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013...
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gkya 8y ago
> But the Turks, they were Central Asian tribes (closer to the Mongols than to Arabs or Europeans) who ended up conquering the Eastern Roman Empire (over centuries) and eventually ended up at the gates of Vienna. This is Turkey's official rhetoric, but hardly the general truth. In today's Turkey, and in the Ottoman Empire, the only thing that was really Central Asian was the Turkish language. The reality is that most possibly the Turkification of Asia Minor was a case of "elite dominance", as allowed by the gap of historical knowledge in the region for many centuries during the Middle Ages and as backed by contemporaneous genetical studies (which relate the local population to Mediterraneans rather than Central Asians). The fact is lots of pseudo science was involved in building a Turkish identity decoupled from Islam during the process of the establisment of the modern Turkish Republic. That's not unlike the similar and similarly funny stories some Hungarians entertain these days, and based mostly on linguistic relations. The Central Asian Turks migrated, thoroughout decades and centuries, westwards, and firstly became Persianised and Islamised, and then became the Muslim warrior elite, and then they built multiple states during some centuries around and in Asia minor, and they begat ultimately the Ottoman Empire, and the peoples were Turkified; but the only concrete thing that change were the lords. At least, this is what genetical data suggests (Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001, Hodoğlugil, and Yardumian are some examples). I take an issue with this narrative as a Turk because that's a fundamental lie the current national identity that we sport is based on, which renders it unsound. > It took another 700 years and Mehmet's use of cannon to bring the walls down and really change history. That's debated too. But cannons or not, what remained for him to conquer was the crumbs of the empire, fitted into a city which you can walk across in both axes with slow tempo in a bit more than an hour. The west left them alone, and the 4th crusade had already rendered them terminally moribund. It's indeed fascinating that he declared himself the new Emperor of Rome, but it's still so w/o the mythology.
- aaron-lebo 8y ago
  Thanks for the detailed response. I did not mean to oversimplify things, but your post is good stuff.
  - gkya 8y ago
    You're welcome! Nothing personal, this is kind of my pet peeve (and possible future research topic), so I just feel the need to write somethings when I see it mentioned.

nickik 8y ago

Agree, its very interesting part of history. Since you seem interested I think this is a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9evHIafx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9evHIafx4

m00dy 8y ago

You are correct. I'm also fascinated by my history even though I'm a Turk.

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danidiaz 8y ago

The Ottoman History Podcast is consistently interesting: https://soundcloud.com/ottoman-history-podcast/tracks https://soundcloud.com/ottoman-history-podcast/tracks

mustaflex 8y ago

Although there aren't a lot of them you can search Bellini's drawings to have a sense on how people looked like around 1453. https://www.fortticonderoga.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/turkish-cloak.jpg https://www.fortticonderoga.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013...

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gkya 8y ago

> But the Turks, they were Central Asian tribes (closer to the Mongols than to Arabs or Europeans) who ended up conquering the Eastern Roman Empire (over centuries) and eventually ended up at the gates of Vienna. This is Turkey's official rhetoric, but hardly the general truth. In today's Turkey, and in the Ottoman Empire, the only thing that was really Central Asian was the Turkish language. The reality is that most possibly the Turkification of Asia Minor was a case of "elite dominance", as allowed by the gap of historical knowledge in the region for many centuries during the Middle Ages and as backed by contemporaneous genetical studies (which relate the local population to Mediterraneans rather than Central Asians). The fact is lots of pseudo science was involved in building a Turkish identity decoupled from Islam during the process of the establisment of the modern Turkish Republic. That's not unlike the similar and similarly funny stories some Hungarians entertain these days, and based mostly on linguistic relations. The Central Asian Turks migrated, thoroughout decades and centuries, westwards, and firstly became Persianised and Islamised, and then became the Muslim warrior elite, and then they built multiple states during some centuries around and in Asia minor, and they begat ultimately the Ottoman Empire, and the peoples were Turkified; but the only concrete thing that change were the lords. At least, this is what genetical data suggests (Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001, Hodoğlugil, and Yardumian are some examples). I take an issue with this narrative as a Turk because that's a fundamental lie the current national identity that we sport is based on, which renders it unsound. > It took another 700 years and Mehmet's use of cannon to bring the walls down and really change history. That's debated too. But cannons or not, what remained for him to conquer was the crumbs of the empire, fitted into a city which you can walk across in both axes with slow tempo in a bit more than an hour. The west left them alone, and the 4th crusade had already rendered them terminally moribund. It's indeed fascinating that he declared himself the new Emperor of Rome, but it's still so w/o the mythology.

aaron-lebo 8y ago
Thanks for the detailed response. I did not mean to oversimplify things, but your post is good stuff.
- gkya 8y ago
  You're welcome! Nothing personal, this is kind of my pet peeve (and possible future research topic), so I just feel the need to write somethings when I see it mentioned.