4 ms·

Anyone have details about how Messages in iCloud works? Is it end-to-end encrypted?

runesoerensen 8y ago
Yes they're end-to-end encrypted (according to the release notes here https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#114 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#114): - Store your messages, photos, and other attachments in iCloud and free up space on your devices - All your messages appear when you sign into a new device with the same iMessage account - When you delete messages and conversations they are instantly removed from all your devices - Your conversations continue to be end-to-end encrypted This Messages in iCloud support article has more details on how to set it up: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532
- larrysalibra 8y ago
  Thanks!
- chillacy 8y ago
  Anyone know how it works? Currently messages are encrypted with the public key of every target device and dispatched directly to the device who decrypts it with keys in the hardware, but that means a new device which comes on won't be able to receive older messages. Now that a new device can receive older messages, and assuming apple doesn't have the keys to your messages, who does the sending? Does one of your existing devices have to relay all the messages by downloading, decrypting, and re-encrypting for the target?
  - chillaxtian 8y ago
    Likely with 'CloudKit End to End Encryption', see page 57 here: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf > CloudKit end-to-end encryption > Apple Pay Cash, User keywords, Siri Intelligence, and Hey Siri use CloudKit end-to-end encryption with a CloudKit service key protected by iCloud Keychain syncing. For these CloudKit containers, the key hierarchy is rooted in iCloud Keychain and therefore shares the security characteristics of iCloud Keychain—the keys are available only on the user’s trusted devices, and not to Apple or any third party. If access to iCloud Keychain data is lost (see “Escrow security” section later in paper), the data in CloudKit is reset, and if data is available from the trusted local device it is re-uploaded to CloudKit.
indemnity 8y ago
All I want is for my conversations with a particular contact to be grouped together. I have four threads with my wife, and each update it seems a random one becomes active because of the From address being reset. This has been an issue since, like, forever.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  It's even worse in group chats, where different people will see different messages in different groups
- chatmasta 8y ago
  Also super annoying when switching countries. The lack of an international prefix on your existing contacts means they are now unontactable, and all your existing chats show as unsaved contacts with an international prefix.
  - throwahey 8y ago
    I think the obvious solution here is to store your contacts with the country code. I believe you can also append it to contacts after the fact and it will update the iMessage thread. If you travel or have contacts out of your country, I find this to be useful.
    - chatmasta 8y ago
      Any idea if it's possible to prepend it to contacts in bulk?
- lathiat 8y ago
  Perhaps your wife has a different from address on multiple devices, and every so often sends a message from a different device causing the thread to switch? Worth checking the "new messages from" setting on all of your devices (on both sides probably) I agree though there is a shortcoming here.
shurcooL 8y ago
Some additional questions about it on my mind: • Does "Messages in iCloud" work for syncing regular SMS messages too, or does it only include iMessages? • It looks like there's no corresponding macOS update today to add Messages in iCloud support, is there? Should we expect it to be bundled into the next minor macOS patch, or is it more likely to be pushed into macOS 10.14?
- 0x0 8y ago
  It's supposed to come in macOS 10.13.5, but today's Xcode 9.4 update says "...includes SDKs for iOS 11.4, ... and macOS 10.13.4" so I wonder if 10.13.5 will come later?
- newscracker 8y ago
  > Does "Messages in iCloud" work for syncing regular SMS messages too, or does it only include iMessages? It works for all messages, that is, SMS and iMessages. You turn it on in the iCloud account settings and it uploads everything. The device needs to be connected to mains power though. Otherwise it pauses the sync process until you do. The upload/download progress is shown at the bottom of the screen in the Messages app.
  - miles 8y ago
    Any chance of auto-reply (not just "Do Not Disturb while driving") at long last? I've had to keep an old jailbroken 4s around with iBlackList on it in order to auto-reply to SMS and iMessage texts[1], as scripting in Messages for macOS is just so buggy. [0] http://www.iblacklist.com.br http://www.iblacklist.com.br [1] https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307210700_iphone_text_auto_reply.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307210700_iphone_text_auto...
    - newscracker 8y ago
      Not from Apple with so much flexibility. But there could be third party apps that use Apple's CallKit SDK to provide something similar for calls. I'd also suggest sending feedback to Apple periodically at https://www.apple.com/feedback https://www.apple.com/feedback even if it seems like the feedback is never taken into account for changes or new features.
gepeto42 8y ago
Yes, and that is great, because iCloud backups are not. So I assume (TBD) that if you enable iMessages in iCloud, they do not need to be backed up as a part of the end to end encrypted iCloud backups, which would increase security for anyone backing up to iCloud or anyone communicating with those who do!

Yes they're end-to-end encrypted (according to the release notes here https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#114 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#114): - Store your messages, photos, and other attachments in iCloud and free up space on your devices - All your messages appear when you sign into a new device with the same iMessage account - When you delete messages and conversations they are instantly removed from all your devices - Your conversations continue to be end-to-end encrypted This Messages in iCloud support article has more details on how to set it up: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532

larrysalibra 8y ago
Thanks!
chillacy 8y ago
Anyone know how it works? Currently messages are encrypted with the public key of every target device and dispatched directly to the device who decrypts it with keys in the hardware, but that means a new device which comes on won't be able to receive older messages. Now that a new device can receive older messages, and assuming apple doesn't have the keys to your messages, who does the sending? Does one of your existing devices have to relay all the messages by downloading, decrypting, and re-encrypting for the target?
- chillaxtian 8y ago
  Likely with 'CloudKit End to End Encryption', see page 57 here: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf > CloudKit end-to-end encryption > Apple Pay Cash, User keywords, Siri Intelligence, and Hey Siri use CloudKit end-to-end encryption with a CloudKit service key protected by iCloud Keychain syncing. For these CloudKit containers, the key hierarchy is rooted in iCloud Keychain and therefore shares the security characteristics of iCloud Keychain—the keys are available only on the user’s trusted devices, and not to Apple or any third party. If access to iCloud Keychain data is lost (see “Escrow security” section later in paper), the data in CloudKit is reset, and if data is available from the trusted local device it is re-uploaded to CloudKit.

indemnity 8y ago

All I want is for my conversations with a particular contact to be grouped together. I have four threads with my wife, and each update it seems a random one becomes active because of the From address being reset. This has been an issue since, like, forever.

kalleboo 8y ago
It's even worse in group chats, where different people will see different messages in different groups
chatmasta 8y ago
Also super annoying when switching countries. The lack of an international prefix on your existing contacts means they are now unontactable, and all your existing chats show as unsaved contacts with an international prefix.
- throwahey 8y ago
  I think the obvious solution here is to store your contacts with the country code. I believe you can also append it to contacts after the fact and it will update the iMessage thread. If you travel or have contacts out of your country, I find this to be useful.
  - chatmasta 8y ago
    Any idea if it's possible to prepend it to contacts in bulk?
lathiat 8y ago
Perhaps your wife has a different from address on multiple devices, and every so often sends a message from a different device causing the thread to switch? Worth checking the "new messages from" setting on all of your devices (on both sides probably) I agree though there is a shortcoming here.

shurcooL 8y ago

Some additional questions about it on my mind: • Does "Messages in iCloud" work for syncing regular SMS messages too, or does it only include iMessages? • It looks like there's no corresponding macOS update today to add Messages in iCloud support, is there? Should we expect it to be bundled into the next minor macOS patch, or is it more likely to be pushed into macOS 10.14?

0x0 8y ago
It's supposed to come in macOS 10.13.5, but today's Xcode 9.4 update says "...includes SDKs for iOS 11.4, ... and macOS 10.13.4" so I wonder if 10.13.5 will come later?
newscracker 8y ago
> Does "Messages in iCloud" work for syncing regular SMS messages too, or does it only include iMessages? It works for all messages, that is, SMS and iMessages. You turn it on in the iCloud account settings and it uploads everything. The device needs to be connected to mains power though. Otherwise it pauses the sync process until you do. The upload/download progress is shown at the bottom of the screen in the Messages app.
- miles 8y ago
  Any chance of auto-reply (not just "Do Not Disturb while driving") at long last? I've had to keep an old jailbroken 4s around with iBlackList on it in order to auto-reply to SMS and iMessage texts[1], as scripting in Messages for macOS is just so buggy. [0] http://www.iblacklist.com.br http://www.iblacklist.com.br [1] https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307210700_iphone_text_auto_reply.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/201307210700_iphone_text_auto...
  - newscracker 8y ago
    Not from Apple with so much flexibility. But there could be third party apps that use Apple's CallKit SDK to provide something similar for calls. I'd also suggest sending feedback to Apple periodically at https://www.apple.com/feedback https://www.apple.com/feedback even if it seems like the feedback is never taken into account for changes or new features.

gepeto42 8y ago

Yes, and that is great, because iCloud backups are not. So I assume (TBD) that if you enable iMessages in iCloud, they do not need to be backed up as a part of the end to end encrypted iCloud backups, which would increase security for anyone backing up to iCloud or anyone communicating with those who do!