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Some very interesting discussion[0] around the bot badge addition: > If you run bots on Mastodon, you can now opt-in to display a bot badge on your profile. Th

Some very interesting discussion[0] around the bot badge addition: > If you run bots on Mastodon, you can now opt-in to display a bot badge on your profile. This works with non-Mastodon software, too, if the ActivityPub actor is of the Service or Application type. In the future, more features might be implemented to filter bot accounts or opt-out of interactions with them. [0] https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/pull/7391 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/pull/7391

chickenfries 8y ago
Is this really worth discussing? This comment spawned so many responses, but if you look at the actual thread it seems like the comment you quote was addressed rather sensibly and then things moved on. People who don't click through to your link get the impression that Mastadon is a gigantic SJW bikeshed where nothing gets done, but that's not actually what happens. I guess I'm just trying to say that we shouldn't give attention to or feed "trolls," even if they are being sincere.
- deyan 8y ago
  Plus it is a grand total of 2 people making 4-5 comments. This issue seems like noise that distracts.
jhoh 8y ago
Yeah, very interesting... "some bots are people" "i want to use the bot badge and i dont want to be called not a person" "Okay, I'm gonna show my hand a little: as a transhumanist, I object to the implied conflation of "person" and "human". This is a situation where we can afford to be forward-thinking and open-minded without a cost to current functionality and, honestly, without a significant cost in terms of work." I hosted a Mastodon instance until a couple months ago. It was stuff like this that made me leave the platform.
- madeofpalk 8y ago
  Or, you run an account that... posts the weather in your city and you want to mark it as a 'bot', like how slackbots are clearly defined in Slack.
- haolez 8y ago
  For those who didn’t understand, these are actual quotes from the comments section. One user goes as far as saying “I’m a robot and also a human”. Really confusing.
  - kzrdude 8y ago
    Is there any reason to believe we should take those comments seriously?
    - deft 8y ago
      Not really. The person making them is known to be unhinged.
    - jhoh 8y ago
      Check out the issue and read the comments. Then check out the profiles that make these comments. Some of them have blogs that very actively discuss these topics. Again, I've been on the platform for some time. These people are dead serious.
      - simias 8y ago
        I'm sure these people can be serious but I'm not sure they should be taken seriously (I assume that's what the parent was asking). Unless they're contributors one way or an other they're just 3rd party trying to create drama where there shouldn't be any.
      - djsumdog 8y ago
        I feel like Poe's Law has to come into play here. It's analogous to flat earthers. We don't really know if they're just trolling or genuinely taking themselves seriously without knowing the intent in their own heads (or some other verifiable writing/posts to indicate they know they're trolling)
        robotbikes 8y ago
        They we're just programmed to start trouble, don't hate the robot, hate the code.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  Are you saying you left because these types of people are on the platform, or because you share their complaints?
  - jhoh 8y ago
    I left because of these types of people. I don't want to stay on a platform where I have to be careful with my speech so I don't offend anyone and I don't want to be banned, blocked etc. for discussing wrong ideas. Some communities there turn toxic really fast when you don't share their opinion, real discussions are often times not possible at all.
    - phaedryx 8y ago
      Isn't the point of running your own instance that you can make your own rules? Or is it because the larger fediverse exerts itself on instances?
    - codewiz 8y ago
      Why do you even care if someone blocks / mutes you? It's their right to do so, and you can do the same when someone annoy you. Since starting to use Mastodon 6 months ago, I had to mute exactly 1 nazi account. Muting is quick and easy, just like dealing with ordinary email spam; it wouldn't be a big deal even if I had to mute a dozen nazis every 6 months :-) Is it just possible that some people have trouble managing their own emotions when dealing with strong disagreement? I can't otherwise explain why a microscopic quantity of undesired content would make someone decide to leave.
    - cgag 8y ago
      I never joined because it somehow seemed to appeal extra strongly to these types. I don't know why.
      - sethhochberg 8y ago
        I suspect its because people who are aware that they want a "decentralized alternative to commercial social media silos" are also predisposed to having opinions which fall outside the normal social media silos. Most people don't get into the habit of reading about censorship-resistant platforms and decentralized networks, let alone joining them or running nodes, if they're living a life which most of the world would consider pretty vanilla and not at risk of being at-odds with the owner of some silo. If you feel you have controversial opinions, though... you seek these kind of tools out and have motivation to use them. Its like the Tor problem - in theory, anybody can and should use Tor for anonymous exchange of information of any kind and the desire for anonymity shouldn't be taboo. In practice, a lot of people who use Tor are doing it for specifically because they have taboo interests (up to and including the outright illegal).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cdubzzz 8y ago
  Mastodon has attracted a very diverse crowd and I'm curious to see how it plays out with the primary developer Gargron, who gives me a sort of eccentric vibe similar to Linus or RMS.
  - heyoni 8y ago
    I’m getting the opposite vibe and the responses seem pretty level headed and logical
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      Linus or RMS tend to have very logical responses, if not always level headed.
- qop 8y ago
  You should still consider using an activitypub platform. I know mastodon has a decidedly lower quality of user, but I use a gnusocial instance and I have lots of interesting conversations. Now, there's degenerates there too, but they're not quite so irritating and there are lots of tuning controls to play with. Honestly, using anything other than large, centralized social media will be a boon to the world, imho. I don't want to be a farm animal, just creating more data for an advertising company. I want to talk to people. There are other interesting implementations too. Pleroma comes to mind, it's an elixir activitypub server. Or maybe you could write your own. Or fork one. Idk. But don't let the mastoverse disenchant you from federated Internet content.
  - secstate 8y ago
    Totally agree with this sentiment. I found a mastodon instance that has some really fantastic people on it, and I only dip into the federated stream when I'm up for a rollercoaster of opinions. Federation has to be the future because it's the only model that allows toxic communities to self destruct, or productive communities to flourish.
- joyeusenoelle 8y ago
  As the author of the "show my hand" comment, it's posters like you that make me avoid Hacker News as a regressive techbro cesspit, so I'm pretty glad you left Mastodon.
simias 8y ago
Bikeshedding meets Social Justice. That's pretty amazing honestly. At least if you take it with a gain of salt it's quite funny. I suppose they might have to rework that code when we reach the Singularity...
jordigh 8y ago
In all seriousness, what does that person mean by saying "I'm a robot and I'm a person"? Is this some kind of movement? Are cybernetic implants getting that good? Is AI finally that advanced? Or is there some sort of delusion that some people feel like their body isn't organic? I'm interested in the most charitable interpretation of that, so if you have an uncharitable answer, please refrain from expressing it.
- tree_of_item 8y ago
  It's delusional thinking where people believe themselves to be something they clearly aren't. It's not even the first example of this to reach mainstream discourse, but I'll be zapped for wrongthink if I mention the other. That's why this sort of thing is really scary.
  - jordigh 8y ago
    Is this like Capgras delusion or something? I have met people with Capgras delusion, and it's a very strange experience to interact with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion But please, don't call mental illness scary, if that's what this is. There's already enough stigma around mental illness to feel like you have to be scared about discussing it.
    - tree_of_item 8y ago
      What's scary is the fact that you can be prevented from recognizing this as delusional because people have decided the delusion needs to be protected from "hate speech". Look at the people in that issues thread saying that the the "bot" wording is not "inclusive" enough.
      - s_kilk 8y ago
        I feel like you're fishing for attention by pussyfooting around some assertion about gender. If that's the case then just come out with it, and bring along some evidence to back yourself up, and remember that belligerence is not an argument.

chickenfries 8y ago

Is this really worth discussing? This comment spawned so many responses, but if you look at the actual thread it seems like the comment you quote was addressed rather sensibly and then things moved on. People who don't click through to your link get the impression that Mastadon is a gigantic SJW bikeshed where nothing gets done, but that's not actually what happens. I guess I'm just trying to say that we shouldn't give attention to or feed "trolls," even if they are being sincere.

deyan 8y ago
Plus it is a grand total of 2 people making 4-5 comments. This issue seems like noise that distracts.

jhoh 8y ago

Yeah, very interesting... "some bots are people" "i want to use the bot badge and i dont want to be called not a person" "Okay, I'm gonna show my hand a little: as a transhumanist, I object to the implied conflation of "person" and "human". This is a situation where we can afford to be forward-thinking and open-minded without a cost to current functionality and, honestly, without a significant cost in terms of work." I hosted a Mastodon instance until a couple months ago. It was stuff like this that made me leave the platform.

madeofpalk 8y ago
Or, you run an account that... posts the weather in your city and you want to mark it as a 'bot', like how slackbots are clearly defined in Slack.
haolez 8y ago
For those who didn’t understand, these are actual quotes from the comments section. One user goes as far as saying “I’m a robot and also a human”. Really confusing.
- kzrdude 8y ago
  Is there any reason to believe we should take those comments seriously?
  - deft 8y ago
    Not really. The person making them is known to be unhinged.
  - jhoh 8y ago
    Check out the issue and read the comments. Then check out the profiles that make these comments. Some of them have blogs that very actively discuss these topics. Again, I've been on the platform for some time. These people are dead serious.
    - simias 8y ago
      I'm sure these people can be serious but I'm not sure they should be taken seriously (I assume that's what the parent was asking). Unless they're contributors one way or an other they're just 3rd party trying to create drama where there shouldn't be any.
    - djsumdog 8y ago
      I feel like Poe's Law has to come into play here. It's analogous to flat earthers. We don't really know if they're just trolling or genuinely taking themselves seriously without knowing the intent in their own heads (or some other verifiable writing/posts to indicate they know they're trolling)
      - robotbikes 8y ago
        They we're just programmed to start trouble, don't hate the robot, hate the code.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
Are you saying you left because these types of people are on the platform, or because you share their complaints?
- jhoh 8y ago
  I left because of these types of people. I don't want to stay on a platform where I have to be careful with my speech so I don't offend anyone and I don't want to be banned, blocked etc. for discussing wrong ideas. Some communities there turn toxic really fast when you don't share their opinion, real discussions are often times not possible at all.
  - phaedryx 8y ago
    Isn't the point of running your own instance that you can make your own rules? Or is it because the larger fediverse exerts itself on instances?
  - codewiz 8y ago
    Why do you even care if someone blocks / mutes you? It's their right to do so, and you can do the same when someone annoy you. Since starting to use Mastodon 6 months ago, I had to mute exactly 1 nazi account. Muting is quick and easy, just like dealing with ordinary email spam; it wouldn't be a big deal even if I had to mute a dozen nazis every 6 months :-) Is it just possible that some people have trouble managing their own emotions when dealing with strong disagreement? I can't otherwise explain why a microscopic quantity of undesired content would make someone decide to leave.
  - cgag 8y ago
    I never joined because it somehow seemed to appeal extra strongly to these types. I don't know why.
    - sethhochberg 8y ago
      I suspect its because people who are aware that they want a "decentralized alternative to commercial social media silos" are also predisposed to having opinions which fall outside the normal social media silos. Most people don't get into the habit of reading about censorship-resistant platforms and decentralized networks, let alone joining them or running nodes, if they're living a life which most of the world would consider pretty vanilla and not at risk of being at-odds with the owner of some silo. If you feel you have controversial opinions, though... you seek these kind of tools out and have motivation to use them. Its like the Tor problem - in theory, anybody can and should use Tor for anonymous exchange of information of any kind and the desire for anonymity shouldn't be taboo. In practice, a lot of people who use Tor are doing it for specifically because they have taboo interests (up to and including the outright illegal).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cdubzzz 8y ago
Mastodon has attracted a very diverse crowd and I'm curious to see how it plays out with the primary developer Gargron, who gives me a sort of eccentric vibe similar to Linus or RMS.
- heyoni 8y ago
  I’m getting the opposite vibe and the responses seem pretty level headed and logical
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    Linus or RMS tend to have very logical responses, if not always level headed.
qop 8y ago
You should still consider using an activitypub platform. I know mastodon has a decidedly lower quality of user, but I use a gnusocial instance and I have lots of interesting conversations. Now, there's degenerates there too, but they're not quite so irritating and there are lots of tuning controls to play with. Honestly, using anything other than large, centralized social media will be a boon to the world, imho. I don't want to be a farm animal, just creating more data for an advertising company. I want to talk to people. There are other interesting implementations too. Pleroma comes to mind, it's an elixir activitypub server. Or maybe you could write your own. Or fork one. Idk. But don't let the mastoverse disenchant you from federated Internet content.
- secstate 8y ago
  Totally agree with this sentiment. I found a mastodon instance that has some really fantastic people on it, and I only dip into the federated stream when I'm up for a rollercoaster of opinions. Federation has to be the future because it's the only model that allows toxic communities to self destruct, or productive communities to flourish.
joyeusenoelle 8y ago
As the author of the "show my hand" comment, it's posters like you that make me avoid Hacker News as a regressive techbro cesspit, so I'm pretty glad you left Mastodon.

simias 8y ago

Bikeshedding meets Social Justice. That's pretty amazing honestly. At least if you take it with a gain of salt it's quite funny. I suppose they might have to rework that code when we reach the Singularity...

jordigh 8y ago

In all seriousness, what does that person mean by saying "I'm a robot and I'm a person"? Is this some kind of movement? Are cybernetic implants getting that good? Is AI finally that advanced? Or is there some sort of delusion that some people feel like their body isn't organic? I'm interested in the most charitable interpretation of that, so if you have an uncharitable answer, please refrain from expressing it.

tree_of_item 8y ago
It's delusional thinking where people believe themselves to be something they clearly aren't. It's not even the first example of this to reach mainstream discourse, but I'll be zapped for wrongthink if I mention the other. That's why this sort of thing is really scary.
- jordigh 8y ago
  Is this like Capgras delusion or something? I have met people with Capgras delusion, and it's a very strange experience to interact with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion But please, don't call mental illness scary, if that's what this is. There's already enough stigma around mental illness to feel like you have to be scared about discussing it.
  - tree_of_item 8y ago
    What's scary is the fact that you can be prevented from recognizing this as delusional because people have decided the delusion needs to be protected from "hate speech". Look at the people in that issues thread saying that the the "bot" wording is not "inclusive" enough.
    - s_kilk 8y ago
      I feel like you're fishing for attention by pussyfooting around some assertion about gender. If that's the case then just come out with it, and bring along some evidence to back yourself up, and remember that belligerence is not an argument.