8 ms·

> What other laws (...) You can't sell guns and drugs online. If you're taking money, you have to make sure you know your customer (KYC). I would also like t

> What other laws (...) You can't sell guns and drugs online. If you're taking money, you have to make sure you know your customer (KYC). I would also like to hear other examples.

cageface 8y ago
I feel like I have a pretty clear idea of the rules in the cases you describe. For GDPR I have no such confidence. It seems like the smart thing for US startups to do right now is ignore EU customers until they’ve validated the business idea enough to justify the engineering and legal expenses of taking this on.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  > I feel like I have a pretty clear idea of the rules in the cases you describe. For GDPR I have no such confidence. I seems reasonable, but I would argue it's due to the law being new, not to some intrinsic property of it, no?
- empath75 8y ago
  The alternative is to not collect personal information from your customers.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > The alternative is to not collect personal information from your customers If that worked I'd embrace GDPR. Problem with "any consumer can make a complaint which requires expensive follow-up" regimes is one doesn't have to do anything wrong to incur costs. Someone can mis-interpret something and make a complaint. Now you have to interface with a regulator, which tends to be risky, expensive and time consuming.
    - aninhumer 8y ago
      If you're not collecting any information "interfacing with the regulator" means replying to their email by saying "we're not collecting any information". (Assuming they even got that far, given that they'd likely take a look at your website and notice you aren't collecting any information.) I'm not sure what's risky, expensive or time consuming about that.
      - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
        Consumer says “I think you’re lying” and forwards to their national data regulator. (This is as simple as writing an e-mail.) Data regulator now asks you questions. You must respond. Hopefully they agree with you. But maybe not! Twenty-eight regulators appointed by different political groups are a complex system. You will need to gain expertise on them or hire someone with it. All I’m saying is that time and money might be better used elsewhere. Particularly by someone just making side projects.
        aninhumer 8y ago
        > Twenty-eight regulators appointed by different political groups are a complex system. You will need to gain expertise on them or hire someone with it. All I’m saying is that time and money might be better used elsewhere. Particularly by someone just making side projects. If you're not collecting data, then all of this is irrelevant. You just say "I'm not collecting data". There's no nuance here.
        JumpCrisscross 8y ago
        > There's no nuance here This is your interpretation. Many prominent lawyers disagree. In any case, convincing a regulator that you are not, in fact, collecting data could be harrowing, distracting and expensive. The risk of incurring those costs probably isn’t a smart one to take for a hacker or very early-stage start-up.
        aninhumer 8y ago
        So in this hypothetical scenario, for some reason the regulator looks at your website, which presumably has no personal information inputs, no tracking analytics etc. and which you have asserted collects no personal information, and they decide that you're still somehow collecting information, and for some reason hounding your low traffic website is the best use of their limited resources.
dwild 8y ago
> You can't sell guns and drugs online. Don't care about that sphere of activity, never going to do any of theses. > If you're taking money, you have to make sure you know your customer (KYC). Can you be more precise? What are the laws about that and should'nt it be Paypal job to support that? Never wanted to compete with Paypal either.. Data is literally everywhere... that means GDPR apply to almost everything. Which is why you may see some people complains about being able to sell guns online but you will see much more people complains about GDPR.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  > Don't care about that sphere of activity, never going to do any of theses. > Can you be more precise? What are the laws about that and should'nt it be Paypal job to support that? Never wanted to compete with Paypal either.. So what you're saying is you couldn't care less unless it affects you. Got it. This is part of my point though. You're a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Who the hell doesn't know about KYC? You just woke up to the world and realized "oh shit, regulations exist! Unacceptable!". Yes, regulations exist, and this is just another one. > Data is literally everywhere... that means GDPR apply to almost everything. This isn't about data, it's about PII. And PII isn't everywhere, unless you're collecting it. > Which is why you may see some people complains about being able to sell guns online but you will see much more people complains about GDPR. No, that's not why. The reason why is that one has been around for a long time and people got used to it.

> What other laws (...) You can't sell guns and drugs online. If you're taking money, you have to make sure you know your customer (KYC). I would also like to hear other examples.

cageface 8y ago

I feel like I have a pretty clear idea of the rules in the cases you describe. For GDPR I have no such confidence. It seems like the smart thing for US startups to do right now is ignore EU customers until they’ve validated the business idea enough to justify the engineering and legal expenses of taking this on.

fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> I feel like I have a pretty clear idea of the rules in the cases you describe. For GDPR I have no such confidence. I seems reasonable, but I would argue it's due to the law being new, not to some intrinsic property of it, no?
empath75 8y ago
The alternative is to not collect personal information from your customers.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > The alternative is to not collect personal information from your customers If that worked I'd embrace GDPR. Problem with "any consumer can make a complaint which requires expensive follow-up" regimes is one doesn't have to do anything wrong to incur costs. Someone can mis-interpret something and make a complaint. Now you have to interface with a regulator, which tends to be risky, expensive and time consuming.
  - aninhumer 8y ago
    If you're not collecting any information "interfacing with the regulator" means replying to their email by saying "we're not collecting any information". (Assuming they even got that far, given that they'd likely take a look at your website and notice you aren't collecting any information.) I'm not sure what's risky, expensive or time consuming about that.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      Consumer says “I think you’re lying” and forwards to their national data regulator. (This is as simple as writing an e-mail.) Data regulator now asks you questions. You must respond. Hopefully they agree with you. But maybe not! Twenty-eight regulators appointed by different political groups are a complex system. You will need to gain expertise on them or hire someone with it. All I’m saying is that time and money might be better used elsewhere. Particularly by someone just making side projects.
      - aninhumer 8y ago
        > Twenty-eight regulators appointed by different political groups are a complex system. You will need to gain expertise on them or hire someone with it. All I’m saying is that time and money might be better used elsewhere. Particularly by someone just making side projects. If you're not collecting data, then all of this is irrelevant. You just say "I'm not collecting data". There's no nuance here.
        JumpCrisscross 8y ago
        > There's no nuance here This is your interpretation. Many prominent lawyers disagree. In any case, convincing a regulator that you are not, in fact, collecting data could be harrowing, distracting and expensive. The risk of incurring those costs probably isn’t a smart one to take for a hacker or very early-stage start-up.
        aninhumer 8y ago
        So in this hypothetical scenario, for some reason the regulator looks at your website, which presumably has no personal information inputs, no tracking analytics etc. and which you have asserted collects no personal information, and they decide that you're still somehow collecting information, and for some reason hounding your low traffic website is the best use of their limited resources.

dwild 8y ago

> You can't sell guns and drugs online. Don't care about that sphere of activity, never going to do any of theses. > If you're taking money, you have to make sure you know your customer (KYC). Can you be more precise? What are the laws about that and should'nt it be Paypal job to support that? Never wanted to compete with Paypal either.. Data is literally everywhere... that means GDPR apply to almost everything. Which is why you may see some people complains about being able to sell guns online but you will see much more people complains about GDPR.

fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> Don't care about that sphere of activity, never going to do any of theses. > Can you be more precise? What are the laws about that and should'nt it be Paypal job to support that? Never wanted to compete with Paypal either.. So what you're saying is you couldn't care less unless it affects you. Got it. This is part of my point though. You're a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Who the hell doesn't know about KYC? You just woke up to the world and realized "oh shit, regulations exist! Unacceptable!". Yes, regulations exist, and this is just another one. > Data is literally everywhere... that means GDPR apply to almost everything. This isn't about data, it's about PII. And PII isn't everywhere, unless you're collecting it. > Which is why you may see some people complains about being able to sell guns online but you will see much more people complains about GDPR. No, that's not why. The reason why is that one has been around for a long time and people got used to it.