4 ms·

> Loot boxes give you variable entertainment, but for that to be gambling you have now defined entertainment as the element of prize Variable entertainment? Th

> Loot boxes give you variable entertainment, but for that to be gambling you have now defined entertainment as the element of prize Variable entertainment? Then a lottery scratch card is "variable entertainment", whatever that is supposed to be. As is I can't distinguish a scratchcard from a lootbox except one has some regulation. They have a feature prize that is the reason for purchase, they have small odds of achieving the feature/promoted prize (Game loot boxes frequently don't give the actual odds), they cost real currency, they can give something of value. Do you then claim that a scratch card is not gambling?

pfisch 8y ago
Let me clear it up for you. The entertainment you derive from a scratch lottery ticket is not the "prize" element of gambling. The prize is the money you win from the scratch off. Gambling devices pay out a prize that is worth a real redeemable cash value and can be sold on an open market. What prize does a loot box give you that is not purely for entertainment value? They do not give you a prize that is redeemable for cash.
- called_it 8y ago
  Hmmm. > the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes
  - pfisch 8y ago
    What is that websters? That is not the legal definition of gambling, and all court decisions on the subject clearly indicate that gambling requires real cash value to the prizes and not just entertainment that has no actual value. Loot boxes do not have the 3rd element of gambling, which is the recognized legal definition in virtually every jurisdiction. https://www.truthfinder.com/glossary/gambling-definition/ https://www.truthfinder.com/glossary/gambling-definition/ "In order for the activity to be considered gambling, it must contain three separate elements. These are consideration, chance, and a prize. If one or more of these elements is not present, then gambling is not taking place." "The final element of gambling is the prize. If the player has the chance to win something of value, then gambling is taking place. Again, the amount or value of the prize is inconsequential. As long as it has some value, it is considered gambling."
    - mmt 8y ago
      > Loot boxes do not have the 3rd element of gambling Huh? I thought it was well established that there is value and that, in some cases, it could even be "legitimately" (even according to the rules of the game provider) traded for real-world money. This may not apply to all constructs that could be considered "loot boxes", but I'm confident it's not the case that the vast majority lack the feature of of transferability of the "loot" that would give credence to the argument that any value is purely that of entermainment to the individual user.
      - pfisch 8y ago
        > I thought it was well established that there is value and that, in some cases, it could even be "legitimately" (even according to the rules of the game provider) traded for real-world money. I have never heard of any game provider doing that. I don't really believe you because they would have no legal protection if they did that. All of their arguments are that the digital goods in the lootbox have no real cash value and are only meant for entertainment purposes. Steam is the one who really rides the rails with these arguments when they let you turn digital goods into steam dollars. But you can't trade the steam dollars and you can't cash them out. They also actively pursue websites that do let you cash out the value of steam digital goods and try to shut them down and make it difficult for them to operate.
        oxide 8y ago
        I can (and have) easily cashed out everything that is on the Steam marketplace for USD. Ever heard of a third party? How about paypal? Is a gray market a concept foreign to you entirely? I can exchange them to a bot, recieve Amazon gift card funds, and then turn that into USD. I can trade them straight up for any cryptocurrency. I can have a bank deposit made tomorrow. I can exchange them for points on a website which get cashed out for USD/EUR/GBP. The list goes on. Just because you are ignorant and Steam isn't directly handing me a dollar for every Steam wallet dollar doesn't mean it is impossible. Please educate yourself or stop feigning.
        8y ago

pfisch 8y ago

Let me clear it up for you. The entertainment you derive from a scratch lottery ticket is not the "prize" element of gambling. The prize is the money you win from the scratch off. Gambling devices pay out a prize that is worth a real redeemable cash value and can be sold on an open market. What prize does a loot box give you that is not purely for entertainment value? They do not give you a prize that is redeemable for cash.

called_it 8y ago
Hmmm. > the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes
- pfisch 8y ago
  What is that websters? That is not the legal definition of gambling, and all court decisions on the subject clearly indicate that gambling requires real cash value to the prizes and not just entertainment that has no actual value. Loot boxes do not have the 3rd element of gambling, which is the recognized legal definition in virtually every jurisdiction. https://www.truthfinder.com/glossary/gambling-definition/ https://www.truthfinder.com/glossary/gambling-definition/ "In order for the activity to be considered gambling, it must contain three separate elements. These are consideration, chance, and a prize. If one or more of these elements is not present, then gambling is not taking place." "The final element of gambling is the prize. If the player has the chance to win something of value, then gambling is taking place. Again, the amount or value of the prize is inconsequential. As long as it has some value, it is considered gambling."
  - mmt 8y ago
    > Loot boxes do not have the 3rd element of gambling Huh? I thought it was well established that there is value and that, in some cases, it could even be "legitimately" (even according to the rules of the game provider) traded for real-world money. This may not apply to all constructs that could be considered "loot boxes", but I'm confident it's not the case that the vast majority lack the feature of of transferability of the "loot" that would give credence to the argument that any value is purely that of entermainment to the individual user.
    - pfisch 8y ago
      > I thought it was well established that there is value and that, in some cases, it could even be "legitimately" (even according to the rules of the game provider) traded for real-world money. I have never heard of any game provider doing that. I don't really believe you because they would have no legal protection if they did that. All of their arguments are that the digital goods in the lootbox have no real cash value and are only meant for entertainment purposes. Steam is the one who really rides the rails with these arguments when they let you turn digital goods into steam dollars. But you can't trade the steam dollars and you can't cash them out. They also actively pursue websites that do let you cash out the value of steam digital goods and try to shut them down and make it difficult for them to operate.
      - oxide 8y ago
        I can (and have) easily cashed out everything that is on the Steam marketplace for USD. Ever heard of a third party? How about paypal? Is a gray market a concept foreign to you entirely? I can exchange them to a bot, recieve Amazon gift card funds, and then turn that into USD. I can trade them straight up for any cryptocurrency. I can have a bank deposit made tomorrow. I can exchange them for points on a website which get cashed out for USD/EUR/GBP. The list goes on. Just because you are ignorant and Steam isn't directly handing me a dollar for every Steam wallet dollar doesn't mean it is impossible. Please educate yourself or stop feigning.
        8y ago