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Most games contain calculated random rewards or else the game would be boring and predictable. However to call this gambling it's quite a stretch as you can't c

Most games contain calculated random rewards or else the game would be boring and predictable. However to call this gambling it's quite a stretch as you can't cash out. Whoever decided to make those "boxes" look like slot machines spinning brought it upon themselves.

ReverseCold 8y ago
> However to call this gambling it's quite a stretch as you can't cash out. In some games you can. See: CS:GO. As long as items can be traded, someone will make a 3rd party site to buy/sell the items.
simion314 8y ago
This is not random loot you find in the world, you pay real money to buy a box and hope you win some cool helmet or gun, you can't buy that item directly and have to buy many boxes until you win it or in some games as mentioned in the article this items can be traded on some gray markets. There are games that just sell you the item, no randomness involved.
InclinedPlane 8y ago
In many games you can cash out, either above board (steam marketplace) or in the grey/black market. But even then, does it necessarily matter? Things of value still have value, and digital goods still have value. People pay cash money for software constantly and we don't question that, we believe that software can have tangible real-world value, sometimes considerably. If someone gifted you a copy of Photoshop or AutoCAD etc. you wouldn't think of that as valueless. The same is true in entertainment products too, and just as with professional software it's a matter of enforced artificial scarcity.
oldcynic 8y ago
Even if you can't trade the items (and you often can), they have a perceived value, and often a hard cash market value. A value that is frequently over-promoted by the game to encourage purchase of more premium currency by the naive to buy more boxes. I can't distinguish a loot box from a scratch card -- except a scratch card must reveal odds. I'm old-school in terms of paying for games: £xx for a complete game, £x for a month's access as they provide a known value exchange. Doubly so when it's the underage being sold to. My kids learnt never to ask - my answer was always no. Lootboxes and other variable rewards, time unlocks and so forth are just a piss-take driven by sheer greed of the GameCo that's ruined many games.
- aianus 8y ago
  > I can't distinguish a loot box from a scratch card -- except a scratch card must reveal odds. A lot of problem gamblers get in a bad way because they think that the only way to recoup their losses is by continuing to play until they win. If you can't sell loot for cash, then it can't lead to this same kind of problem gambling because it's literally impossible to recoup your losses instead of merely unlikely. Therefore lootboxes should be regulated differently from actual gambling if at all.
  - oldcynic 8y ago
    > A lot of problem gamblers get in a bad way ... by continuing to play until they win The why does not matter. By removing that part of your text the behaviour applies equally to both. Whether it is about recouping losses, or desiring the "ownership" of some pixels the same addictive behaviours are at work, and the same problems and financial losses can accrue. Game companies employ psychologists and economists to try and ensure addictiveness - giving you a meaningless "almost a winner" tickets with 2 of 3 required tokens etc > If you can't sell loot for cash In a good proportion of games you can sell the loot for cash. Via Steam Marketplace and so on. They deserve the same regulation and age limits as fixed odds betting terminals and fruit machines as that is essentially what they are.

ReverseCold 8y ago

> However to call this gambling it's quite a stretch as you can't cash out. In some games you can. See: CS:GO. As long as items can be traded, someone will make a 3rd party site to buy/sell the items.

simion314 8y ago

This is not random loot you find in the world, you pay real money to buy a box and hope you win some cool helmet or gun, you can't buy that item directly and have to buy many boxes until you win it or in some games as mentioned in the article this items can be traded on some gray markets. There are games that just sell you the item, no randomness involved.

InclinedPlane 8y ago

In many games you can cash out, either above board (steam marketplace) or in the grey/black market. But even then, does it necessarily matter? Things of value still have value, and digital goods still have value. People pay cash money for software constantly and we don't question that, we believe that software can have tangible real-world value, sometimes considerably. If someone gifted you a copy of Photoshop or AutoCAD etc. you wouldn't think of that as valueless. The same is true in entertainment products too, and just as with professional software it's a matter of enforced artificial scarcity.

oldcynic 8y ago

Even if you can't trade the items (and you often can), they have a perceived value, and often a hard cash market value. A value that is frequently over-promoted by the game to encourage purchase of more premium currency by the naive to buy more boxes. I can't distinguish a loot box from a scratch card -- except a scratch card must reveal odds. I'm old-school in terms of paying for games: £xx for a complete game, £x for a month's access as they provide a known value exchange. Doubly so when it's the underage being sold to. My kids learnt never to ask - my answer was always no. Lootboxes and other variable rewards, time unlocks and so forth are just a piss-take driven by sheer greed of the GameCo that's ruined many games.

aianus 8y ago
> I can't distinguish a loot box from a scratch card -- except a scratch card must reveal odds. A lot of problem gamblers get in a bad way because they think that the only way to recoup their losses is by continuing to play until they win. If you can't sell loot for cash, then it can't lead to this same kind of problem gambling because it's literally impossible to recoup your losses instead of merely unlikely. Therefore lootboxes should be regulated differently from actual gambling if at all.
- oldcynic 8y ago
  > A lot of problem gamblers get in a bad way ... by continuing to play until they win The why does not matter. By removing that part of your text the behaviour applies equally to both. Whether it is about recouping losses, or desiring the "ownership" of some pixels the same addictive behaviours are at work, and the same problems and financial losses can accrue. Game companies employ psychologists and economists to try and ensure addictiveness - giving you a meaningless "almost a winner" tickets with 2 of 3 required tokens etc > If you can't sell loot for cash In a good proportion of games you can sell the loot for cash. Via Steam Marketplace and so on. They deserve the same regulation and age limits as fixed odds betting terminals and fruit machines as that is essentially what they are.