5 ms·

- Obligatory reminder that the NPM system is a failboat. - Public Service Announcement: Don't board the failboat.

bartread 8y ago
Thanks, but what's the alternative when yarn relies on npm infrastructure? Like it or not, you're still using npm. It's got so you basically cannot do serious client-side development without one of them.
- mykull 8y ago
  "Enterprise development" is not the same as "serious development". Anyone still doing regular old JavaScript without the transpiling and megaframework dependencies is arguably taking their task more seriously than those who are.
  - bartread 8y ago
    Who's talking about transpiling and mega-frameworks? I'm simply talking about the headache of managing dependencies on a reasonably complex project. The "mega-frameworks", by which I assume you mean products such as Angular, React, Vue, etc., are often not the worst offenders when it comes to external dependencies. Of course, when you start pulling in extensions that story can change, but that can be true of pulling in any other library that provides equivalent functionality (where such exists).
  - moogly 8y ago
    I'm sorry, but after having used TypeScript there's no way I'm ever going to back to writing pure JavaScript anymore (for anything but the most trivial stuff). It's borderline irresponsible, IMO.
    - mykull 8y ago
      I'd like to say I love typescript, too. It's better for collaborative development than raw JS. My point is different, that working in the "low level" or raw JS, obfuscated or not, is where the substantive work happens. Good example is the people working on frameworks.
- ino 8y ago
  > you basically cannot do serious client-side development without one of them You're going to have to explain that better, otherwise you're just perpetuating that dumb lie. You absolutely can do serious (whatever that means) client-side development without yarn or npm.
  - bartread 8y ago
    It comes down to managing dependencies: without a package manager this becomes a serious headache on products/sites of even moderate complexity.
- twic 8y ago
  WebJars! https://www.webjars.org/ https://www.webjars.org/ I've used them for fairly basic front-end JS development in mostly-Java projects. They worked fine. I don't know if they lack things you'd need to more involved work.

Thanks, but what's the alternative when yarn relies on npm infrastructure? Like it or not, you're still using npm. It's got so you basically cannot do serious client-side development without one of them.

mykull 8y ago
"Enterprise development" is not the same as "serious development". Anyone still doing regular old JavaScript without the transpiling and megaframework dependencies is arguably taking their task more seriously than those who are.
- bartread 8y ago
  Who's talking about transpiling and mega-frameworks? I'm simply talking about the headache of managing dependencies on a reasonably complex project. The "mega-frameworks", by which I assume you mean products such as Angular, React, Vue, etc., are often not the worst offenders when it comes to external dependencies. Of course, when you start pulling in extensions that story can change, but that can be true of pulling in any other library that provides equivalent functionality (where such exists).
- moogly 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but after having used TypeScript there's no way I'm ever going to back to writing pure JavaScript anymore (for anything but the most trivial stuff). It's borderline irresponsible, IMO.
  - mykull 8y ago
    I'd like to say I love typescript, too. It's better for collaborative development than raw JS. My point is different, that working in the "low level" or raw JS, obfuscated or not, is where the substantive work happens. Good example is the people working on frameworks.
ino 8y ago
> you basically cannot do serious client-side development without one of them You're going to have to explain that better, otherwise you're just perpetuating that dumb lie. You absolutely can do serious (whatever that means) client-side development without yarn or npm.
- bartread 8y ago
  It comes down to managing dependencies: without a package manager this becomes a serious headache on products/sites of even moderate complexity.
twic 8y ago
WebJars! https://www.webjars.org/ https://www.webjars.org/ I've used them for fairly basic front-end JS development in mostly-Java projects. They worked fine. I don't know if they lack things you'd need to more involved work.