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It seems the same response has come up a few times here. Everyone starts out at a relatively low level, rises to a max and then decline as they age. Some people

It seems the same response has come up a few times here. Everyone starts out at a relatively low level, rises to a max and then decline as they age. Some people reach such a high level that even in decline they are still very productive. I like to think I am one of these people ;) Just because something is hard to measure with certainty does not mean that it can't be measured. While your boss might not be able to precisely measure your productivity they will likely have a pretty good idea.

mmt 8y ago
> Everyone starts out at a relatively low level, rises to a max and then decline as they age > While your boss might not be able to precisely measure your productivity they will likely have a pretty good idea. You've repeatedly asserted both of these points but haven't pointed to any evidence to back them up. I think most commenters here are being particularly polite in talking about the imprecision or difficulty in measuring performance. The less polite assertion is: people managers are, in general, downright incompetent at the part of their job. We've routinely seen reports of CEOs being extremely highly-compensated despite not actually running a company well. There have even been articles suggesting that there's no difference in performance between the more highly-sought-after (and paid) CEOs and other ones, but nothing rigorous. There's no reason to believe the ineptitude wouldn't extend all the way down. As for your assertion about everyone declining as they age, I think you only need to look at any recent research on dementia, as that has debunked the notion that cognitive decline is a normal part of aging. If cognitive decline isn't to be expected merely from age, it doesn't stand to reason that the productivity caused by that cognition would be expected to decline, either.
- danieltillett 8y ago
  I can’t believe that anyone thinks the brain is somehow the only organ of the human body that does not decline with age - as for evidence start with the wiki page on this topic [0]. Once again I can’t believe that people think their boss(es) don’t know how productive they are. While it is not easy and mistakes are often made, it is not difficult to know approximately how productive your reports are. If as a boss you don’t know this you should be fired for incompetence. Everyone declines with age, but not everyone gets dementia. You have made an extraordinary claim that there are some people that don’t suffer cognitive decline as they age. Are you able to provide any evidence to back up this claim? 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_brain
  - mmt 8y ago
    > I can’t believe that anyone thinks the brain is somehow the only organ of the human body that does not decline with age You don't have to believe it. Actually, I happen no to. I'm pretty sure the human liver is remarkably good at regenerating itself and so, as an organ, does not decline stricly with age. >as for evidence start with the wiki page on this topic Oddly, you've linked a Wikipedia page whose first sentence is "Age is a major risk factor for most common neurodegenerative diseases" but then you point out that not everyone gets dementia. So, let's broaden my claim from "dementia" to "neurodegenerative diseases". Absent one of those (what's the prevalence in the population?), how many people decline? Still 100%? > Once again I can’t believe that people think their boss(es) don’t know how productive they are. It's tough to tell if you're being disingenuous here or not. Many commenters on here have a remarkable amount (years if not decades) of first-hand experience of working for managers who clearly did not know, in some cases seeing them bamboozled by other employees successfully taking credit for others' work. These aren't isolated incidents, and it's why there are reasoned, thoughtful discussions on here about what it even means to be productive as an engineer, as well as how to be a good technical manager who encourages the most productivity in the (now well-understood) absence of the ability to measure it. >While it is not easy and mistakes are often made, it is not difficult to know approximately how productive your reports are. "Not easy" and "not difficult" are contradictory. > You have made an extraordinary claim that there are some people that don’t suffer cognitive decline as they age. Are you able to provide any evidence to back up this claim? Actually, it's you who've made the extraordinary claim, since it requires showing that every single human declines. To falsify it, I need only a single piece of anecdata, which can be pulled from the comments of this thread or the one about IBM's age discrimination.
    - danieltillett 8y ago
      We seem to be talking past each other, but if you can find one person in the world who has not declined (i.e. aged) with increasing years please post as we need to study this person in incredible detail. I am not joking as this is literally a matter of life and death for billions of people.
      - 8y ago

mmt 8y ago

> Everyone starts out at a relatively low level, rises to a max and then decline as they age > While your boss might not be able to precisely measure your productivity they will likely have a pretty good idea. You've repeatedly asserted both of these points but haven't pointed to any evidence to back them up. I think most commenters here are being particularly polite in talking about the imprecision or difficulty in measuring performance. The less polite assertion is: people managers are, in general, downright incompetent at the part of their job. We've routinely seen reports of CEOs being extremely highly-compensated despite not actually running a company well. There have even been articles suggesting that there's no difference in performance between the more highly-sought-after (and paid) CEOs and other ones, but nothing rigorous. There's no reason to believe the ineptitude wouldn't extend all the way down. As for your assertion about everyone declining as they age, I think you only need to look at any recent research on dementia, as that has debunked the notion that cognitive decline is a normal part of aging. If cognitive decline isn't to be expected merely from age, it doesn't stand to reason that the productivity caused by that cognition would be expected to decline, either.

danieltillett 8y ago
I can’t believe that anyone thinks the brain is somehow the only organ of the human body that does not decline with age - as for evidence start with the wiki page on this topic [0]. Once again I can’t believe that people think their boss(es) don’t know how productive they are. While it is not easy and mistakes are often made, it is not difficult to know approximately how productive your reports are. If as a boss you don’t know this you should be fired for incompetence. Everyone declines with age, but not everyone gets dementia. You have made an extraordinary claim that there are some people that don’t suffer cognitive decline as they age. Are you able to provide any evidence to back up this claim? 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_brain
- mmt 8y ago
  > I can’t believe that anyone thinks the brain is somehow the only organ of the human body that does not decline with age You don't have to believe it. Actually, I happen no to. I'm pretty sure the human liver is remarkably good at regenerating itself and so, as an organ, does not decline stricly with age. >as for evidence start with the wiki page on this topic Oddly, you've linked a Wikipedia page whose first sentence is "Age is a major risk factor for most common neurodegenerative diseases" but then you point out that not everyone gets dementia. So, let's broaden my claim from "dementia" to "neurodegenerative diseases". Absent one of those (what's the prevalence in the population?), how many people decline? Still 100%? > Once again I can’t believe that people think their boss(es) don’t know how productive they are. It's tough to tell if you're being disingenuous here or not. Many commenters on here have a remarkable amount (years if not decades) of first-hand experience of working for managers who clearly did not know, in some cases seeing them bamboozled by other employees successfully taking credit for others' work. These aren't isolated incidents, and it's why there are reasoned, thoughtful discussions on here about what it even means to be productive as an engineer, as well as how to be a good technical manager who encourages the most productivity in the (now well-understood) absence of the ability to measure it. >While it is not easy and mistakes are often made, it is not difficult to know approximately how productive your reports are. "Not easy" and "not difficult" are contradictory. > You have made an extraordinary claim that there are some people that don’t suffer cognitive decline as they age. Are you able to provide any evidence to back up this claim? Actually, it's you who've made the extraordinary claim, since it requires showing that every single human declines. To falsify it, I need only a single piece of anecdata, which can be pulled from the comments of this thread or the one about IBM's age discrimination.
  - danieltillett 8y ago
    We seem to be talking past each other, but if you can find one person in the world who has not declined (i.e. aged) with increasing years please post as we need to study this person in incredible detail. I am not joking as this is literally a matter of life and death for billions of people.
    - 8y ago