6 ms·

If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Theres no reason $80k is the top end of the pa

If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Theres no reason $80k is the top end of the pay range for any job. The economy does not price jobs based on prestige, education level, or some other signal... that's a judgement made by certain people about what they think a job is worth.. not the market. The opinions of people about the worth of a job are irrelevant.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
The opinions of people about the worth of a job are irrelevant On the other hand, the reputation of an employer or of an industry plays into the market price. You'd think that post-2015 most life scientists would not have worked for Theranos for any salary at all, and if truckers tell you that bonuses are worthless, that means you have to raise the base salary to find any takers.
52-6F-62 8y ago
This is definitely a major problem in large corporations with HR rules baked into the fabric of the thing over decades. Many positions get assigned a grade based upon the nature of the work. A series of qualifiers fix that kind of position to a grade. You can earn anything inside of that grade, but not distinctly above it. Considering yearly cost of living increases are usually fixed at about 2%, it can take one some many years before they even approach the cap. And then there is the yearly culling of the herd with no standard qualifier. Somebody wants more money? You find a better job. One of my favourite [read that with sarcasm] lines I'd heard in a yearly review was, "your salary here is like running a marathon..."
- gaius 8y ago
  The most laughable thing is when HR benchmark salaries and offer the average, but still expect above-average quality to walk in the door. Get rid of all them save the payroll clerks and any company will be better off and better to work for.
  - geezerjay 8y ago
    > The most laughable thing is when HR benchmark salaries and offer the average, but still expect above-average quality to walk in the door. They don't expect it. They put up an offer and from the pool of candidates they pick the ones they prefer. Everyone wants to maximize the return they get from their offering. The same goes for job seekers, who seek the cushiest job they can get.
  - Tenhundfeld 8y ago
    I'm sure it's different in different places, but that's not my experience with HR, not at all. In my experience working closely with folks in HR, they are hamstrung by management. To put it another way, they typically know when they're recruiting for a position where the compensation and job expectations don't align, and they hate it. They hate wasting their time, your time, etc. They argue against it, but at the end of the day, they're not setting the salary benchmarks/pay bands. Those are set by some Director/VP and dictated to HR.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  I remember a surreal conversation with my manager from a previous company. Despite my great job performance, I could not get a raise, because I was at the top of the range and "the book said" I couldn't make any more. This was shortly before I left.
shados 8y ago
Depends on the profit margin in a field. Some industries have razor thin margins. Unless your competitors do the same as you do (and in some industries, your competitors are in other countries with different standards of living), you don't have a whole lot of choice. Software/SaaS is able to give ever increasing wages because of near infinite supply of investor money and/or insane profit margins (which won't last). Some other industries, not so much.
- deleted 8y ago
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- deleted 8y ago
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- isolli 8y ago
  Yes, but even in industries with razor-thin margins the solution to a labor shortage is to increase salaries. Some of the companies will go under, and the most productive ones will survive. It's capitalism, quite simply.
  - test6554 8y ago
    The solution to a labor shortage is to increase salaries, increase productivity, or automate.
    - isolli 8y ago
      Or better, all of the above :)
- caf 8y ago
  Labour is no different to any other business input. If you can't afford the inputs you need at the price the market is setting, you can't afford to run a profitable business.
FooHentai 8y ago
>If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Most cases I would guess this is true until you hit the point that the pay is enough to live comfortably. Then it changes. My partner was recently approached for a position offering compensation more than 200% of their current for the same work. However,the hiring process is exposing red flags hinting at a toxic working environment: On-fighting, lack of planning, unreasonable expectations. I'm guessing this is the reason the pay they offer is so much higher than it 'should' be. That position may remain unfilled for quite some time. Working conditions are such a major aspect of any job, and while folks will put up with a bad working environment if the pay is right, that only works up to the point of being comfortably paid. Once you reach that level most folks start to care more about what their work day feels like. Toxic work cultures are very hard to fix, too.
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  Yes, thanks. This is why I wrote "total compensation" instead of wages. There are many forms of compensation: health insurance and other benefits; how nice the working environment is; how nice your boss is; the reputation of the firm (for example, the value of having google on your resume vs an unknown company); etc.
- flukus 8y ago
  I'd happily put up with a toxic work environment for double my pay. My costs are fixed so if I tolerate it for a couple of years that's a lot of money to put towards some major investments, it could easily pay off the rest of my apartment in a year. IME places like this usually pay low to middle of the road salaries though, I suspect you partner may have avoided a bait and switch hiring process.
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    My sister developed a psychosomatic peanut (amongst other things) allergy and insomnia because of a toxic work environment. There is definitely a price for that but if you are comfortable emotionally and physically now 'double' isn't enough in a lot of cases.
azernik 8y ago
And if that doesn't work, improve working conditions - more time off, lower stress, etc.
dmichulke 8y ago
Corollary: There is no shortage if the salary is low.
jbergens 8y ago
On the other hand IT complains of lack of skilled workers all the time, and here the salaries seem to be pretty good compared to other careers.
- soziawa 8y ago
  They complain about a lack of skilled worker at lower prices.

HarryHirsch 8y ago

The opinions of people about the worth of a job are irrelevant On the other hand, the reputation of an employer or of an industry plays into the market price. You'd think that post-2015 most life scientists would not have worked for Theranos for any salary at all, and if truckers tell you that bonuses are worthless, that means you have to raise the base salary to find any takers.

52-6F-62 8y ago

This is definitely a major problem in large corporations with HR rules baked into the fabric of the thing over decades. Many positions get assigned a grade based upon the nature of the work. A series of qualifiers fix that kind of position to a grade. You can earn anything inside of that grade, but not distinctly above it. Considering yearly cost of living increases are usually fixed at about 2%, it can take one some many years before they even approach the cap. And then there is the yearly culling of the herd with no standard qualifier. Somebody wants more money? You find a better job. One of my favourite [read that with sarcasm] lines I'd heard in a yearly review was, "your salary here is like running a marathon..."

gaius 8y ago
The most laughable thing is when HR benchmark salaries and offer the average, but still expect above-average quality to walk in the door. Get rid of all them save the payroll clerks and any company will be better off and better to work for.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > The most laughable thing is when HR benchmark salaries and offer the average, but still expect above-average quality to walk in the door. They don't expect it. They put up an offer and from the pool of candidates they pick the ones they prefer. Everyone wants to maximize the return they get from their offering. The same goes for job seekers, who seek the cushiest job they can get.
- Tenhundfeld 8y ago
  I'm sure it's different in different places, but that's not my experience with HR, not at all. In my experience working closely with folks in HR, they are hamstrung by management. To put it another way, they typically know when they're recruiting for a position where the compensation and job expectations don't align, and they hate it. They hate wasting their time, your time, etc. They argue against it, but at the end of the day, they're not setting the salary benchmarks/pay bands. Those are set by some Director/VP and dictated to HR.
ryandrake 8y ago
I remember a surreal conversation with my manager from a previous company. Despite my great job performance, I could not get a raise, because I was at the top of the range and "the book said" I couldn't make any more. This was shortly before I left.

shados 8y ago

Depends on the profit margin in a field. Some industries have razor thin margins. Unless your competitors do the same as you do (and in some industries, your competitors are in other countries with different standards of living), you don't have a whole lot of choice. Software/SaaS is able to give ever increasing wages because of near infinite supply of investor money and/or insane profit margins (which won't last). Some other industries, not so much.

deleted 8y ago
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deleted 8y ago
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isolli 8y ago
Yes, but even in industries with razor-thin margins the solution to a labor shortage is to increase salaries. Some of the companies will go under, and the most productive ones will survive. It's capitalism, quite simply.
- test6554 8y ago
  The solution to a labor shortage is to increase salaries, increase productivity, or automate.
  - isolli 8y ago
    Or better, all of the above :)
caf 8y ago
Labour is no different to any other business input. If you can't afford the inputs you need at the price the market is setting, you can't afford to run a profitable business.

FooHentai 8y ago

>If you're an employer and you cant find employees, the answer is virtually always to increase total compensation. Most cases I would guess this is true until you hit the point that the pay is enough to live comfortably. Then it changes. My partner was recently approached for a position offering compensation more than 200% of their current for the same work. However,the hiring process is exposing red flags hinting at a toxic working environment: On-fighting, lack of planning, unreasonable expectations. I'm guessing this is the reason the pay they offer is so much higher than it 'should' be. That position may remain unfilled for quite some time. Working conditions are such a major aspect of any job, and while folks will put up with a bad working environment if the pay is right, that only works up to the point of being comfortably paid. Once you reach that level most folks start to care more about what their work day feels like. Toxic work cultures are very hard to fix, too.

rgbrenner 8y ago
Yes, thanks. This is why I wrote "total compensation" instead of wages. There are many forms of compensation: health insurance and other benefits; how nice the working environment is; how nice your boss is; the reputation of the firm (for example, the value of having google on your resume vs an unknown company); etc.
flukus 8y ago
I'd happily put up with a toxic work environment for double my pay. My costs are fixed so if I tolerate it for a couple of years that's a lot of money to put towards some major investments, it could easily pay off the rest of my apartment in a year. IME places like this usually pay low to middle of the road salaries though, I suspect you partner may have avoided a bait and switch hiring process.
- Avshalom 8y ago
  My sister developed a psychosomatic peanut (amongst other things) allergy and insomnia because of a toxic work environment. There is definitely a price for that but if you are comfortable emotionally and physically now 'double' isn't enough in a lot of cases.

azernik 8y ago

And if that doesn't work, improve working conditions - more time off, lower stress, etc.

dmichulke 8y ago

Corollary: There is no shortage if the salary is low.

jbergens 8y ago

On the other hand IT complains of lack of skilled workers all the time, and here the salaries seem to be pretty good compared to other careers.

soziawa 8y ago
They complain about a lack of skilled worker at lower prices.