9 ms·

Some companies don't sell ads or user data at all, but use related user information to detect things like scam rings on dating sites, spam rings on forums, and

by beaner 8y ago

Some companies don't sell ads or user data at all, but use related user information to detect things like scam rings on dating sites, spam rings on forums, and fraud rings on finance sites. If that information can just be deleted at the request of the user, say hello to way worse user experiences on sites like those, and many more you haven't yet thought of. The only way around it is to lock down signups, provide constricted service, or let the communities rot.

dave5104 8y ago
But why can't users be asked and given the option? If that's the result of their data being deleted, then I'm sure the company in question would make users well aware of the consequences of opting out.
- czardoz 8y ago
  The problem is that even a few users opting out can create a bad experience for other users of the service.
- beaner 8y ago
  I don't think you can expect users to be anything but selfishly motivated, and concerned with their own experience only. I don't think most will care about the experience of others. Certainly not if they're deleting their own account from the service. Plus the point is that in these cases, potentially the users who would most want to delete are the ones most motivated to do so: the scam/spam/fraud ringsters.
- digitalzombie 8y ago
  > would make users well aware of the consequences of opting out. People don't even read the ToS (term of service). I'm pessimistic that they would even do this.
sulam 8y ago
If you read the article you would know that this is perfectly legal under the proposition. It's selling your data to third parties without user consent that it makes illegal.
- beaner 8y ago
  I wasn't referencing the article, I was responding to the criticism that collecting user data doesn't serve a real purpose, and that it's just "creepy." Also, I could be wrong, but GDPR does mandate data deletion on request, so even if it isn't a concern for this bill as written right now, it's still something to think about, since these regulations are headed in that direction.
  - sulam 8y ago
    GDPR only applies to EU citizens. This would apply to California residents. It also is covering a different behavior.
DanBC 8y ago
Data privacy laws generally don't give blanket opt-out options, and this proposal doesn't seem to include an opt-out. (Think about it: eg criminals obviously can't opt out of police databases). The full text of the proposal is here: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%28Consumer%20Privacy%20V2%29.pdf https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%... > A. Giving California consumers the right to know what categories of personal information a business has collected about them and their children. > B. Giving California consumers the right to know whether a business has sold this personal information, or disclosed it for a business purpose, and to whom. > C. Requiring a business to disclose to a California consumer if it sells any of the consumer's personal information and allowing a consumer to tell the business to stop selling the consumer's personal information. > D. Preventing a business from denying, changing, or charging more for a service if a California consumer requests information about the business's collection or sale of the consumer's personal information, or refuses to allow the business to sell the consumer's personal information. > E. Requiring businesses to safeguard California consumers' personal information and holding them accountable if such information is compromised as a result ofa security breach arising from the business's failure to take reasonable steps to protect the security of consumers' sensitive information. I don't think the sky is going to fall if this gets passed.
- beaner 8y ago
  That's cool, and I agree. Though as mentioned in another comment, I wasn't referencing the article, I was responding to the criticism that collecting user data doesn't serve a real purpose, and that it's just "creepy."
  - chopin 8y ago
    It's creepy if it's done behind your back. The tasks described upthread can be done openly.
- fiter 8y ago
  "D" is surprising to me. It's either going to create a high incentive for dark patterns or it will kill the business of selling data. Why doesn't the proposal make it illegal to sell data if that's the case? Past that, it's also surprising that a lot of this is about selling data, but what about using it internally? It seems like Facebook and Google don't want to sell your data as they consider it their proprietary asset.

by beaner 8y ago

dave5104 8y ago

But why can't users be asked and given the option? If that's the result of their data being deleted, then I'm sure the company in question would make users well aware of the consequences of opting out.

czardoz 8y ago
The problem is that even a few users opting out can create a bad experience for other users of the service.
beaner 8y ago
I don't think you can expect users to be anything but selfishly motivated, and concerned with their own experience only. I don't think most will care about the experience of others. Certainly not if they're deleting their own account from the service. Plus the point is that in these cases, potentially the users who would most want to delete are the ones most motivated to do so: the scam/spam/fraud ringsters.
digitalzombie 8y ago
> would make users well aware of the consequences of opting out. People don't even read the ToS (term of service). I'm pessimistic that they would even do this.

sulam 8y ago

If you read the article you would know that this is perfectly legal under the proposition. It's selling your data to third parties without user consent that it makes illegal.

beaner 8y ago
I wasn't referencing the article, I was responding to the criticism that collecting user data doesn't serve a real purpose, and that it's just "creepy." Also, I could be wrong, but GDPR does mandate data deletion on request, so even if it isn't a concern for this bill as written right now, it's still something to think about, since these regulations are headed in that direction.
- sulam 8y ago
  GDPR only applies to EU citizens. This would apply to California residents. It also is covering a different behavior.

DanBC 8y ago

Data privacy laws generally don't give blanket opt-out options, and this proposal doesn't seem to include an opt-out. (Think about it: eg criminals obviously can't opt out of police databases). The full text of the proposal is here: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%28Consumer%20Privacy%20V2%29.pdf https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%... > A. Giving California consumers the right to know what categories of personal information a business has collected about them and their children. > B. Giving California consumers the right to know whether a business has sold this personal information, or disclosed it for a business purpose, and to whom. > C. Requiring a business to disclose to a California consumer if it sells any of the consumer's personal information and allowing a consumer to tell the business to stop selling the consumer's personal information. > D. Preventing a business from denying, changing, or charging more for a service if a California consumer requests information about the business's collection or sale of the consumer's personal information, or refuses to allow the business to sell the consumer's personal information. > E. Requiring businesses to safeguard California consumers' personal information and holding them accountable if such information is compromised as a result ofa security breach arising from the business's failure to take reasonable steps to protect the security of consumers' sensitive information. I don't think the sky is going to fall if this gets passed.

beaner 8y ago
That's cool, and I agree. Though as mentioned in another comment, I wasn't referencing the article, I was responding to the criticism that collecting user data doesn't serve a real purpose, and that it's just "creepy."
- chopin 8y ago
  It's creepy if it's done behind your back. The tasks described upthread can be done openly.
fiter 8y ago
"D" is surprising to me. It's either going to create a high incentive for dark patterns or it will kill the business of selling data. Why doesn't the proposal make it illegal to sell data if that's the case? Past that, it's also surprising that a lot of this is about selling data, but what about using it internally? It seems like Facebook and Google don't want to sell your data as they consider it their proprietary asset.