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Just because you own, e.g. stock doesn't mean you control the underlying means of production it represents a share of. Most people who own stock do so as part o

Just because you own, e.g. stock doesn't mean you control the underlying means of production it represents a share of. Most people who own stock do so as part of a retirement fund. Those institutional investors, banks, managers, politicians, corporate board members, CEO's, etc. Are the ones who actually control capital. It should be emphasized that a lot of how capitalism runs these days is in the hands of huge bureaucracies that comprise people but don't quite act like people. There is a small class of people who operate at that level as individuals: these are the capitalist class. This is an important distinction, don't you think?

djajshgsjja 8y ago
All those people you listed are still cogs in the machine, to varying degrees. The CEOs are beholden to the boards, who are beholden to the institutional investors, who manage my 401k. Certainly, the CEOs have higher leverage over the system on an individual basis. But anyone whose wealth is increasing mainly through return on capital is a member, if not a leader, of the capitalist class.
- danharaj 8y ago
  Sure, they're all beholden to each other but they're the ones who make the decisions about how to allocate the means of production and which labor power to buy. People who derive their income primarily from investments but don't really decide anything or buy labor power are a rung below those who do. Taxonomize it however you want provided the distinction remains.
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    Who would you consider more of a capitalist, the apartment block owner who contracts with a property manager or the property manager who decides who to rent it to? The high-net-worth individual who deposits his capital with an asset manager, or the salaried fund manager who determines which securities to buy with it? The angel investor who puts $1M of his own money into a fledgling startup, or the entrepreneur who decides how it's spent? The hedge fund manager who has bought 40% of the company on Wall Street, or the CEO entrusted to make the daily decisions on company operation? I'm surprised the grandparent post has been downvoted, because when you get close to how capital is actually managed and invested, it's clear that it's a lot less clear than it looks from the outside. Even people who nominally have "control" over capital expenditures are subject to market returns. If they don't invest that capital correctly, they will lose the ability to manage more capital.

djajshgsjja 8y ago

All those people you listed are still cogs in the machine, to varying degrees. The CEOs are beholden to the boards, who are beholden to the institutional investors, who manage my 401k. Certainly, the CEOs have higher leverage over the system on an individual basis. But anyone whose wealth is increasing mainly through return on capital is a member, if not a leader, of the capitalist class.

danharaj 8y ago
Sure, they're all beholden to each other but they're the ones who make the decisions about how to allocate the means of production and which labor power to buy. People who derive their income primarily from investments but don't really decide anything or buy labor power are a rung below those who do. Taxonomize it however you want provided the distinction remains.
- nostrademons 8y ago
  Who would you consider more of a capitalist, the apartment block owner who contracts with a property manager or the property manager who decides who to rent it to? The high-net-worth individual who deposits his capital with an asset manager, or the salaried fund manager who determines which securities to buy with it? The angel investor who puts $1M of his own money into a fledgling startup, or the entrepreneur who decides how it's spent? The hedge fund manager who has bought 40% of the company on Wall Street, or the CEO entrusted to make the daily decisions on company operation? I'm surprised the grandparent post has been downvoted, because when you get close to how capital is actually managed and invested, it's clear that it's a lot less clear than it looks from the outside. Even people who nominally have "control" over capital expenditures are subject to market returns. If they don't invest that capital correctly, they will lose the ability to manage more capital.