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>I wouldn't mind such a system where you e.g. get 1 EUR back for each bottle, but it's going to have to be something like that. The current deposit fees on plas

>I wouldn't mind such a system where you e.g. get 1 EUR back for each bottle, but it's going to have to be something like that. The current deposit fees on plastic bottles are too low, once you're earning enough money it doesn't make any financial sense to return them. I think in some countries if you don't want to get your money back you leave the bottles and cans near the garbage bin or other places and a kid or a poor person will return it and make some money.

avar 8y ago
> I think in some countries if you don't want to get your money back you leave the bottles and cans near the garbage bin or other places and a kid or a poor person will return it and make some money. Indeed. Personally I do this because it's not worth it for me to recycle it on my own, but I still care about the environment and my fellow man. But what I'm pointing out is that it's an economically irrational decision on my part, and if someone doesn't give a shit about the environment to the point of not bothering with recycling unless it's costing them money not to do it, they probably don't care that much about their fellow man either. So in some sense it's a regressive tax (although short term), but I'd be for a policy where drinks cost a bit more to make it economically worthwhile for more people who aren't going to do it because they're nice, but for profit.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Personally I do this because it's not worth it for me to recycle it on my own, but I still care about the environment and my fellow man. > But what I'm pointing out is that it's an economically irrational decision on my part, It's not economically irrational; as obviously the condition of “the environment and your fellow man” play into your personal utility function.
  - avar 8y ago
    By this strange definition my desire to live as a beggar in Thailand for 10 years to meditate find my inner self even though I might hypothetically make $1M/yr now working in an office iseconomically rational. When people (including myself) say that something is economically rational it's commonly understood to mean that any given person wouldn't make the same choice if given the choice, not that you can't find an example of someone who'll do otherwise. In other words talking about something being "economically rational" is the other side of there being an "economic incentive". In this case the economic incentives of not just throwing away plastics aren't aligned with the desired effect. This is a classic example of an externality coupled with the tragedy of the commons.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > By this strange definition It's the standard definition underlying rational actor theory, and exactly what rationality means in economics.
vincnetas 8y ago
In Lituania after we implemented deposit system for cans, there was 97% return ratio in 2017. This was so unexpected that agency responsible for managing deposit system had to updated agreements with beverage producers because of this.

avar 8y ago

> I think in some countries if you don't want to get your money back you leave the bottles and cans near the garbage bin or other places and a kid or a poor person will return it and make some money. Indeed. Personally I do this because it's not worth it for me to recycle it on my own, but I still care about the environment and my fellow man. But what I'm pointing out is that it's an economically irrational decision on my part, and if someone doesn't give a shit about the environment to the point of not bothering with recycling unless it's costing them money not to do it, they probably don't care that much about their fellow man either. So in some sense it's a regressive tax (although short term), but I'd be for a policy where drinks cost a bit more to make it economically worthwhile for more people who aren't going to do it because they're nice, but for profit.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Personally I do this because it's not worth it for me to recycle it on my own, but I still care about the environment and my fellow man. > But what I'm pointing out is that it's an economically irrational decision on my part, It's not economically irrational; as obviously the condition of “the environment and your fellow man” play into your personal utility function.
- avar 8y ago
  By this strange definition my desire to live as a beggar in Thailand for 10 years to meditate find my inner self even though I might hypothetically make $1M/yr now working in an office iseconomically rational. When people (including myself) say that something is economically rational it's commonly understood to mean that any given person wouldn't make the same choice if given the choice, not that you can't find an example of someone who'll do otherwise. In other words talking about something being "economically rational" is the other side of there being an "economic incentive". In this case the economic incentives of not just throwing away plastics aren't aligned with the desired effect. This is a classic example of an externality coupled with the tragedy of the commons.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > By this strange definition It's the standard definition underlying rational actor theory, and exactly what rationality means in economics.

vincnetas 8y ago

In Lituania after we implemented deposit system for cans, there was 97% return ratio in 2017. This was so unexpected that agency responsible for managing deposit system had to updated agreements with beverage producers because of this.