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The best thing is that you can get away with paying a good software developer only €2500 per month. You can get four French developers for the price of one Amer

The best thing is that you can get away with paying a good software developer only €2500 per month. You can get four French developers for the price of one American.

IMTDb 8y ago
This is below France median salary. If you think you can get away with that, you either : - Have developers that are actually not that good - Have good developers that will realise that you are vastly underpaying them and will jump ship Salaries in France are lower than in the US, but if you think good developers are settling for remunerations below the median salary of the country they live in, you will get a wake up call sooner or later. Corollary: If you are a good developer in France, working for 2500 EUR / month & is looking for a raise, send me a message ;-)
- mandor 8y ago
  This is the "net" of a senior researcher (very competitve position, people are about 35-40 year old, about 10-15 years after a good PhD) in public institutions (see http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Directeurs-de-recherche-84 http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Directeur...) and more than most "researchers" in public institutions (http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Charges-de-recherche-85 http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Charges-d... -- 5-10 years after a PhD). This includes researches in CS and AI.
  - pyrale 8y ago
    Nope,these prices for researchers are meant for academia jobs. Researchers in companies, especially in AI fetch between 60% and 100% more.
- p0nce 8y ago
  > This is below France median salary. No.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  I'm in the UK (not France) and I make ~3050EUR a month (pre tax), I take home after tax ~2400EUR. I've been making money from selling code since 1996 and a full time developer over a decade. While my salary would be low in London (I'd be worth at least another 10-15K down there) in the North of England and particularly where I live that gives me an excellent standard of living, rent on a decent sized two bed is <25% of my salary alone (excluding my partners entirely) about 15% if we include hers. US Salaries are way higher than UK salaries even in London and if you exclude London then the gap is hilariously bad. Average software engineer in my region earns £25K. I could move down south but frankly I don't want to, I like it up here, I have a good mostly low stress 9-5 job. There is more to life than take home pay. Additionally I have complex (therefore potentially very expensive) health issues that don't affect my ability to work but would affect my ability to get healthcare insurance in the US - if I adjust for that then things look much better from this side of the pond tbh.
  - systemtest 8y ago
    I am a contractor in the Netherlands and I believe it is the best possible place for a developer. We have a very high quality of life and a good balance in income and spending. As a contractor you can earn near 20k per month pre-tax (around 7k per month post-tax) and live in a big home that costs you 1k per month in mortgage. That leaves you a lot of money for your spare time, fun activities and early retirement. I'm planning to retire at 35.
    - Pandabob 8y ago
      Is this for real? I mean is this common? That's €240k, which is starting to near SF levels of pay. I've got a hard time believing this but will look into it more thoroughly. As a data scientist in Finland, I've been under the impression that the best places for a developer in terms of compensation in Europe are Switzerland, Norway and London (if one gets a good contracting gig there).
      - systemtest 8y ago
        Hourly contractor, so you don't get any of the social safety net, you have to arrange your own pension, no pay on holiday, no sick days, no company car, no company laptop. You have to take care of all that yourself. A little calculation for your average senior developer in a corporate for-profit environment. On average you can do about 1850 billable hours a year, which means you are taking 7 weeks off for holiday, illness, courses, certifications. At an average rate of 90 euro per hour, that is €166,500 per year. With VAT added you can bill the customer €201,465 per year.
- karambahh 8y ago
  Median income is 1772€ per month.[1] According to [2], 2500€ is top 85%, way higher than median! (Numbers from 2013 and sources in french but I guess it is understandable for everyone. I expect salaries to have slightly increased in the last 5 years but not moving by +40%) [1]https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1370897 https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1370897 [2]https://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/salaire-mensuel-net-france-salaire-moyen-median-deciles-euros-0110201361101.html https://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/salaire-mensuel-net-...
  - baud147258 8y ago
    I think the 2500 € is before income taxes, whereas 1772€ is after the income tax
kakwa_ 8y ago
nope. 30k a year is the salary of a junior developer after employee taxes, and it's the low end of the spectrum. A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer.
- baud147258 8y ago
  > A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer. It depends on the company, as a junior I'm only getting 36k/year, before income taxes.
  - kakwa_ 8y ago
    36K was my starting salary to when I started working about 8 years ago. In the Paris area it's a standard salary for a junior developer fresh out of engineering school. It can be higher if you are coming from a top school like Centrale or Supelec (~38/40k). It can also be higher if you work in banks/finance. I'm not 100% sure, but 30K could be a medium salary for students fresh out of IUTs (2 years professional formation after high-school). But most of the time, the best students will continue for another 3 years in an engineering schools. But keep in mind that 36k a year before YOUR income taxes ("salaire brut"). Before that, the employer has to pay his side of the taxes/social security ("charges patronales"). In the end, he has to pay around 4 for 5k per month if I recall correctly (sorry, I don't have the exact figures), which means roughly 50k to 60k a year. You can take a look at your payslips for the exact figures.
    - baud147258 8y ago
      Thank you for your informations, they are in line with what I've seen so far. > But keep in mind that 36k a year before YOUR income taxes ("salaire brut"). Before that, the employer has to pay his side of the taxes/social security ("charges patronales"). In the end, he has to pay around 4 for 5k per month if I recall correctly (sorry, I don't have the exact figures), which means roughly 50k to 60k a year. You can take a look at your payslips for the exact figures. I've recently checked and, for my salary of 36k, my employer has paid 54K.
aloisdg 8y ago
Young french developer here (1 year experience). I earn 45k€ (52k$) per year "good software developer only €2500 per month" is a bad joke you should not tell.

The best thing is that you can get away with paying a good software developer only €2500 per month. You can get four French developers for the price of one American.

IMTDb 8y ago

This is below France median salary. If you think you can get away with that, you either : - Have developers that are actually not that good - Have good developers that will realise that you are vastly underpaying them and will jump ship Salaries in France are lower than in the US, but if you think good developers are settling for remunerations below the median salary of the country they live in, you will get a wake up call sooner or later. Corollary: If you are a good developer in France, working for 2500 EUR / month & is looking for a raise, send me a message ;-)

mandor 8y ago
This is the "net" of a senior researcher (very competitve position, people are about 35-40 year old, about 10-15 years after a good PhD) in public institutions (see http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Directeurs-de-recherche-84 http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Directeur...) and more than most "researchers" in public institutions (http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Charges-de-recherche-85 http://www.emploitheque.org/grille-indiciaire-etat-Charges-d... -- 5-10 years after a PhD). This includes researches in CS and AI.
- pyrale 8y ago
  Nope,these prices for researchers are meant for academia jobs. Researchers in companies, especially in AI fetch between 60% and 100% more.
p0nce 8y ago
> This is below France median salary. No.
noir_lord 8y ago
I'm in the UK (not France) and I make ~3050EUR a month (pre tax), I take home after tax ~2400EUR. I've been making money from selling code since 1996 and a full time developer over a decade. While my salary would be low in London (I'd be worth at least another 10-15K down there) in the North of England and particularly where I live that gives me an excellent standard of living, rent on a decent sized two bed is <25% of my salary alone (excluding my partners entirely) about 15% if we include hers. US Salaries are way higher than UK salaries even in London and if you exclude London then the gap is hilariously bad. Average software engineer in my region earns £25K. I could move down south but frankly I don't want to, I like it up here, I have a good mostly low stress 9-5 job. There is more to life than take home pay. Additionally I have complex (therefore potentially very expensive) health issues that don't affect my ability to work but would affect my ability to get healthcare insurance in the US - if I adjust for that then things look much better from this side of the pond tbh.
- systemtest 8y ago
  I am a contractor in the Netherlands and I believe it is the best possible place for a developer. We have a very high quality of life and a good balance in income and spending. As a contractor you can earn near 20k per month pre-tax (around 7k per month post-tax) and live in a big home that costs you 1k per month in mortgage. That leaves you a lot of money for your spare time, fun activities and early retirement. I'm planning to retire at 35.
  - Pandabob 8y ago
    Is this for real? I mean is this common? That's €240k, which is starting to near SF levels of pay. I've got a hard time believing this but will look into it more thoroughly. As a data scientist in Finland, I've been under the impression that the best places for a developer in terms of compensation in Europe are Switzerland, Norway and London (if one gets a good contracting gig there).
    - systemtest 8y ago
      Hourly contractor, so you don't get any of the social safety net, you have to arrange your own pension, no pay on holiday, no sick days, no company car, no company laptop. You have to take care of all that yourself. A little calculation for your average senior developer in a corporate for-profit environment. On average you can do about 1850 billable hours a year, which means you are taking 7 weeks off for holiday, illness, courses, certifications. At an average rate of 90 euro per hour, that is €166,500 per year. With VAT added you can bill the customer €201,465 per year.
karambahh 8y ago
Median income is 1772€ per month.[1] According to [2], 2500€ is top 85%, way higher than median! (Numbers from 2013 and sources in french but I guess it is understandable for everyone. I expect salaries to have slightly increased in the last 5 years but not moving by +40%) [1]https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1370897 https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1370897 [2]https://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/salaire-mensuel-net-france-salaire-moyen-median-deciles-euros-0110201361101.html https://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/salaire-mensuel-net-...
- baud147258 8y ago
  I think the 2500 € is before income taxes, whereas 1772€ is after the income tax

kakwa_ 8y ago

nope. 30k a year is the salary of a junior developer after employee taxes, and it's the low end of the spectrum. A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer.

baud147258 8y ago
> A company will at least pay 50 to 60k euros per year in total for a junior developer. It depends on the company, as a junior I'm only getting 36k/year, before income taxes.
- kakwa_ 8y ago
  36K was my starting salary to when I started working about 8 years ago. In the Paris area it's a standard salary for a junior developer fresh out of engineering school. It can be higher if you are coming from a top school like Centrale or Supelec (~38/40k). It can also be higher if you work in banks/finance. I'm not 100% sure, but 30K could be a medium salary for students fresh out of IUTs (2 years professional formation after high-school). But most of the time, the best students will continue for another 3 years in an engineering schools. But keep in mind that 36k a year before YOUR income taxes ("salaire brut"). Before that, the employer has to pay his side of the taxes/social security ("charges patronales"). In the end, he has to pay around 4 for 5k per month if I recall correctly (sorry, I don't have the exact figures), which means roughly 50k to 60k a year. You can take a look at your payslips for the exact figures.
  - baud147258 8y ago
    Thank you for your informations, they are in line with what I've seen so far. > But keep in mind that 36k a year before YOUR income taxes ("salaire brut"). Before that, the employer has to pay his side of the taxes/social security ("charges patronales"). In the end, he has to pay around 4 for 5k per month if I recall correctly (sorry, I don't have the exact figures), which means roughly 50k to 60k a year. You can take a look at your payslips for the exact figures. I've recently checked and, for my salary of 36k, my employer has paid 54K.

aloisdg 8y ago

Young french developer here (1 year experience). I earn 45k€ (52k$) per year "good software developer only €2500 per month" is a bad joke you should not tell.