5 ms·

Westerners did everything to belittle the Eastern civilizations when the West was laying the foundations of its own civilization. So it's very difficult for peo

Westerners did everything to belittle the Eastern civilizations when the West was laying the foundations of its own civilization. So it's very difficult for people who have lived and educated in the West to realize that Eastern civilizations were at the height of glory once. When Indian sages were debating intricate points of philosophy, people in the West were still in caves and lead a tribal existence. Hindu metaphysics is much superior to any other metaphysical system in the world. This informs its science and religion. West has made some gains but what that research is worth will only be known a few centuries from now when history is written. It's easy to be blinded by the current events and lose perspective.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
>"Westerners did everything to belittle the Eastern civilizations when the West was laying the foundations of its own civilization." That is a very uncharitable view. For centuries, trade flourished between east and west, and there was widespread exchange of both goods and ideas. The racism and distrust of "orientals" or "easterners" didn't come until much later, primarily in the era of colonialism (a seriously black mark on western history, as you know) and it didn't actually put a stop to trade and exchange of ideas. >"So it's very difficult for people who have lived and educated in the West to realize that Eastern civilizations were at the height of glory once." Not at all. We are very much aware of the great history of India, China, the Arab world and northern Africa, to name a few key areas where great civilizations of the ancient world flourished. Mostly in broad terms of course, it's hard enough to know every detail of your own history, never mind one that happened halfway around the world. But similarly, you can say that it's very easy for people who have lived and been educated in the east, to not realize the heights reached by western civilizations. One's own history is much closer, obviously. >"When Indian sages were debating intricate points of philosophy, people in the West were still in caves and lead a tribal existence." That is not a very charitable view. In this time period, the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations flourished, and you would hardly call them tribal cave people. Some people in the west (especially in the colder, harsher northern areas) lived in tribal societies, just as some people in the east did. But to completely ignore the great civilizations around the Mediterranean sea is not a very informed view to take. >"Hindu metaphysics is much superior to any other metaphysical system in the world." By which measure? Remember that contemporary western civilizations also had intricate spiritual and philosophical systems. >"It's easy to be blinded by the current events and lose perspective." I will contend that it is much easier to be blinded by past glory, and especially a historically "massaged" and "improved" view of ancient history. The danger of having a backwards perspective is that you become blind to current events and the future. We cannot live in the past, and "we were great once, you know" is a dead end, not a way forward. Personally, I am disturbed by this strong rise of hindu nationalism (and nationalism in general), because we have seen what it can lead to. Massacres, world wars, conquest of "lesser people", widespread oppression, economies set back by decades or even centuries. We should endeavor to never repeat these mistakes.
- no1name 8y ago
  The media is presenting it to you as "Hindu nationalism" and what not. You need to really know what's happening on ground, which you cannot at all appreciate sitting in West by reading articles by random journos. I'd direct you to read A million mutinies now by VS Naipaul about Hindu awakening and what social churning is taking place in India. Also, there is no need to be alarmed as people are merely connecting to their roots and tradition. The current ideology of liberalism obviously detests the word tradition, so I can understand that Westerners are worried about some weird stuff going on in India. Greek and Roman philosophers were great of course, but none matched the heights to which Hindu philosophy went. And the height to which ancient Indian civilization went, there's no evidence to say that any other civilization went that far. Also, Hindus are still connected to that pagan past irrespective of thousands of years of invasion by various forces from the West (the Islamics, Church and colonialists). So there is a great desire to reach those heights. Past glory may be blinding, but to revel in belonging to the most powerful Western empire is something else. The sense of power and control can blind even the most level headed person. That said, the Hindu awakening is making the Hindus think of their future. Most importantly, Indians missed the Industrial revolution, which I can say is the main advantage West obtained. If West was so great, there'd be no reason for it to decline so quickly. Basically, Western civilization is a 300 year blip in the whole human history.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    From what I see, Hindu nationalists are massively trying to rewrite history, forcing changes to school textbooks and curricula, to fit their political agenda. That is a bad path to go down, no matter who you are or where you come from. This is not merely something written about by "random journos", this is coming from critical journalists and historians within India. >"The current ideology of liberalism obviously detests the word tradition" Far from it. Tradition has strong bonds that bind societies and people together, they should not merely be cast away. However, one must not be blinded by tradition, especially not by traditions that are much younger than they appear, and traditions that are pushed by those with a political agenda. >"Greek and Roman philosophers were great of course, but none matched the heights to which Hindu philosophy went. And the height to which ancient Indian civilization went, there's no evidence to say that any other civilization went that far." Those are extremely subjective statements, without any qualifiers at all. It is not enough to simply make a statement of superiority, and expect others to blindly believe it. Did ancient India reach great heights? Sure, for the time period in which it happened. But the following fall was dizzying, and other civilizations (Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome and so) arguably reached similar or greater heights. It is not an easy thing to quantify, since they reached their ultimate heights in different areas. Striving for greatness is awesome. But it should not be built on a basis of politically rewriting history to fit a particular narrative. You're obviously proud, which is good. But you also seem to have bought in to the political narrative, being pushed by those with a nationalistic agenda. The situation is bad in a lot of places in India today, but unchecked nationalism is never the answer and turning a blind eye to deeply set cultural and societal issues is not a solution.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

>"Westerners did everything to belittle the Eastern civilizations when the West was laying the foundations of its own civilization." That is a very uncharitable view. For centuries, trade flourished between east and west, and there was widespread exchange of both goods and ideas. The racism and distrust of "orientals" or "easterners" didn't come until much later, primarily in the era of colonialism (a seriously black mark on western history, as you know) and it didn't actually put a stop to trade and exchange of ideas. >"So it's very difficult for people who have lived and educated in the West to realize that Eastern civilizations were at the height of glory once." Not at all. We are very much aware of the great history of India, China, the Arab world and northern Africa, to name a few key areas where great civilizations of the ancient world flourished. Mostly in broad terms of course, it's hard enough to know every detail of your own history, never mind one that happened halfway around the world. But similarly, you can say that it's very easy for people who have lived and been educated in the east, to not realize the heights reached by western civilizations. One's own history is much closer, obviously. >"When Indian sages were debating intricate points of philosophy, people in the West were still in caves and lead a tribal existence." That is not a very charitable view. In this time period, the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations flourished, and you would hardly call them tribal cave people. Some people in the west (especially in the colder, harsher northern areas) lived in tribal societies, just as some people in the east did. But to completely ignore the great civilizations around the Mediterranean sea is not a very informed view to take. >"Hindu metaphysics is much superior to any other metaphysical system in the world." By which measure? Remember that contemporary western civilizations also had intricate spiritual and philosophical systems. >"It's easy to be blinded by the current events and lose perspective." I will contend that it is much easier to be blinded by past glory, and especially a historically "massaged" and "improved" view of ancient history. The danger of having a backwards perspective is that you become blind to current events and the future. We cannot live in the past, and "we were great once, you know" is a dead end, not a way forward. Personally, I am disturbed by this strong rise of hindu nationalism (and nationalism in general), because we have seen what it can lead to. Massacres, world wars, conquest of "lesser people", widespread oppression, economies set back by decades or even centuries. We should endeavor to never repeat these mistakes.

no1name 8y ago
The media is presenting it to you as "Hindu nationalism" and what not. You need to really know what's happening on ground, which you cannot at all appreciate sitting in West by reading articles by random journos. I'd direct you to read A million mutinies now by VS Naipaul about Hindu awakening and what social churning is taking place in India. Also, there is no need to be alarmed as people are merely connecting to their roots and tradition. The current ideology of liberalism obviously detests the word tradition, so I can understand that Westerners are worried about some weird stuff going on in India. Greek and Roman philosophers were great of course, but none matched the heights to which Hindu philosophy went. And the height to which ancient Indian civilization went, there's no evidence to say that any other civilization went that far. Also, Hindus are still connected to that pagan past irrespective of thousands of years of invasion by various forces from the West (the Islamics, Church and colonialists). So there is a great desire to reach those heights. Past glory may be blinding, but to revel in belonging to the most powerful Western empire is something else. The sense of power and control can blind even the most level headed person. That said, the Hindu awakening is making the Hindus think of their future. Most importantly, Indians missed the Industrial revolution, which I can say is the main advantage West obtained. If West was so great, there'd be no reason for it to decline so quickly. Basically, Western civilization is a 300 year blip in the whole human history.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  From what I see, Hindu nationalists are massively trying to rewrite history, forcing changes to school textbooks and curricula, to fit their political agenda. That is a bad path to go down, no matter who you are or where you come from. This is not merely something written about by "random journos", this is coming from critical journalists and historians within India. >"The current ideology of liberalism obviously detests the word tradition" Far from it. Tradition has strong bonds that bind societies and people together, they should not merely be cast away. However, one must not be blinded by tradition, especially not by traditions that are much younger than they appear, and traditions that are pushed by those with a political agenda. >"Greek and Roman philosophers were great of course, but none matched the heights to which Hindu philosophy went. And the height to which ancient Indian civilization went, there's no evidence to say that any other civilization went that far." Those are extremely subjective statements, without any qualifiers at all. It is not enough to simply make a statement of superiority, and expect others to blindly believe it. Did ancient India reach great heights? Sure, for the time period in which it happened. But the following fall was dizzying, and other civilizations (Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome and so) arguably reached similar or greater heights. It is not an easy thing to quantify, since they reached their ultimate heights in different areas. Striving for greatness is awesome. But it should not be built on a basis of politically rewriting history to fit a particular narrative. You're obviously proud, which is good. But you also seem to have bought in to the political narrative, being pushed by those with a nationalistic agenda. The situation is bad in a lot of places in India today, but unchecked nationalism is never the answer and turning a blind eye to deeply set cultural and societal issues is not a solution.