4 ms·

I would like to know whether this happens mostly to people who work in fields that demand some degree of perfectionism and / or black & white thinking, or are i

I would like to know whether this happens mostly to people who work in fields that demand some degree of perfectionism and / or black & white thinking, or are in artificial environments with clear answers (like maths, programming). Mind trained for ubiquitous perfectionism / black-white thinking* -> perfectionist self-criticism -> chronic stress If this is right, the alternative solution is to not apply the thinking patterns that lead to performing well in those types of work in those many areas of life where there is no clear answer, or no place for such patterns.

bladegash 8y ago
It is a double-edged sword. On one hand, perfectionism and black/white thinking can lead to really amazing achievements. However, the person who legitimately suffers from perfectionism bears significant personal cost to achieve it. Even worse, those with perfectionism will either A) Not ever complete the work because nothing can ever be perfect, or B) See their work as a failure due to it not being perfect. "A" causes work-related issues when timelines are unmet or interpersonal problems with coworkers. And "B" means the individual always sees themselves as a failure, no matter how much they put into an effort. Sometimes, "good enough" really is good enough and making mistakes is something all humans do. For perfectionists...they'll invest all their energy into trying not to face that aspect of their humanity. Once they do face it, it can be really difficult.
rukuu001 8y ago
I've never been a black/white thinker, but I got a big dose of "you're no good" in my childhood, which led to chronic self-criticism. I finally left that behind around age 40, mostly from just being worn out by it I think.
- navs 8y ago
  I just turned 30 and the self criticism has gotten stronger. Mostly, I think, because I feel like time's running out to get adult things done like buy a house, get married, etc.
  - rukuu001 8y ago
    Thoughts that have buoyed me: - I'm not 'normal'. Expecting life to proceed 'normally' doesn't make sense for me. - Other people's expectations are none of my business (related to marriage, property ownership etc). - I may die before the end of this sentence, or in 60 years time; 'too late' is relative. (Phew, made it). I'm not making assumptions about them applying in your case, but wanted to share in case they're helpful.
  - squiggleblaz 8y ago
    I turned 30 three years ago and I was barely a living being with no hope despite some success (in that I was holding down a decent job but my income was nowhere near enough to buy a house). Four years later - I'm about to get married and we're thinking of buying - or living overseas. My income has gone up. I have so many friends. There's no timeline. There's no time limit. My aunt got married for the first time and then she got retired. A friend of mum's got married for the first time five years ago. My life isn't yours and don't set a timeline by it. If you're stuck in a rut try and get creative, but most of the things you try - you'll still have to try something else afterwards. There's nothing wrong with having a few experiences, especially if you're bored of social media and video games. And so many people will envy you for it. "Success" in adult things is just when you're too busy to try new things - lots of people would love a bit of failure.
mikekchar 8y ago
Disclaimer: Did not RTFA. There is a difference between observation and judgement. Sometimes it's easy for people to separate the two. For example, let's say I am drawing a picture. I draw a line. It is a line. It's neither good nor bad. It's just a fact. The line is not straight. Again, it's just an observation. The line is not straight enough. Here I'm comparing the observation against some ideal. It's a kind of discrimination. When drawing a line in this circumstance, there is some advantage to it being straighter than the line I drew. This has an air of judgement to it, but I can still view it objectively if I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of making the line more or less straight. I am bad a drawing. This may also be true, but we're slowly making our way from a helpful objective comparison to an unhelpful judgement. Against what criteria am I bad? Do I need to be better than I am? I should not draw because I am bad at it. Now we're making a lot of implied judgements and making conclusions based on a lot of things that we haven't necessarily thought about. What's wrong with drawing badly? Why should I avoid it? etc, etc. So in that way, the stress is not inherent in the "perfectionism". It is not stressful that a math question may only have a single defined answer. It's not even inherently stressful if I don't know the answer. It's only really stressful if I think I should know the answer, or if I'm pretending to know the answer when I don't. There is nothing wrong with thinking critically. It's the assignment of value where it becomes problematic.

bladegash 8y ago

It is a double-edged sword. On one hand, perfectionism and black/white thinking can lead to really amazing achievements. However, the person who legitimately suffers from perfectionism bears significant personal cost to achieve it. Even worse, those with perfectionism will either A) Not ever complete the work because nothing can ever be perfect, or B) See their work as a failure due to it not being perfect. "A" causes work-related issues when timelines are unmet or interpersonal problems with coworkers. And "B" means the individual always sees themselves as a failure, no matter how much they put into an effort. Sometimes, "good enough" really is good enough and making mistakes is something all humans do. For perfectionists...they'll invest all their energy into trying not to face that aspect of their humanity. Once they do face it, it can be really difficult.

rukuu001 8y ago

I've never been a black/white thinker, but I got a big dose of "you're no good" in my childhood, which led to chronic self-criticism. I finally left that behind around age 40, mostly from just being worn out by it I think.

navs 8y ago
I just turned 30 and the self criticism has gotten stronger. Mostly, I think, because I feel like time's running out to get adult things done like buy a house, get married, etc.
- rukuu001 8y ago
  Thoughts that have buoyed me: - I'm not 'normal'. Expecting life to proceed 'normally' doesn't make sense for me. - Other people's expectations are none of my business (related to marriage, property ownership etc). - I may die before the end of this sentence, or in 60 years time; 'too late' is relative. (Phew, made it). I'm not making assumptions about them applying in your case, but wanted to share in case they're helpful.
- squiggleblaz 8y ago
  I turned 30 three years ago and I was barely a living being with no hope despite some success (in that I was holding down a decent job but my income was nowhere near enough to buy a house). Four years later - I'm about to get married and we're thinking of buying - or living overseas. My income has gone up. I have so many friends. There's no timeline. There's no time limit. My aunt got married for the first time and then she got retired. A friend of mum's got married for the first time five years ago. My life isn't yours and don't set a timeline by it. If you're stuck in a rut try and get creative, but most of the things you try - you'll still have to try something else afterwards. There's nothing wrong with having a few experiences, especially if you're bored of social media and video games. And so many people will envy you for it. "Success" in adult things is just when you're too busy to try new things - lots of people would love a bit of failure.

mikekchar 8y ago

Disclaimer: Did not RTFA. There is a difference between observation and judgement. Sometimes it's easy for people to separate the two. For example, let's say I am drawing a picture. I draw a line. It is a line. It's neither good nor bad. It's just a fact. The line is not straight. Again, it's just an observation. The line is not straight enough. Here I'm comparing the observation against some ideal. It's a kind of discrimination. When drawing a line in this circumstance, there is some advantage to it being straighter than the line I drew. This has an air of judgement to it, but I can still view it objectively if I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of making the line more or less straight. I am bad a drawing. This may also be true, but we're slowly making our way from a helpful objective comparison to an unhelpful judgement. Against what criteria am I bad? Do I need to be better than I am? I should not draw because I am bad at it. Now we're making a lot of implied judgements and making conclusions based on a lot of things that we haven't necessarily thought about. What's wrong with drawing badly? Why should I avoid it? etc, etc. So in that way, the stress is not inherent in the "perfectionism". It is not stressful that a math question may only have a single defined answer. It's not even inherently stressful if I don't know the answer. It's only really stressful if I think I should know the answer, or if I'm pretending to know the answer when I don't. There is nothing wrong with thinking critically. It's the assignment of value where it becomes problematic.