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I'm originally from Toronto and I find this concept absolutely horrific. First - to give some self-serving private enterprise such leeway in our communities -

I'm originally from Toronto and I find this concept absolutely horrific. First - to give some self-serving private enterprise such leeway in our communities - can you imagine 'McDonalds' creating an entire neighbourhood to server their interests of fast food? "Hey, everything is centered around food deliver machines, delivering healthy, happy food quickly!" Second - Google has shown that they are remarkably out of touch with social reality of communities. Even their product attempts in social - Google+ for example, it's like they fail to understand really what they are doing, and focus everything around an algorithm. Even when governments get into major urban planning they 'screw it up' - the suburbs of Toronto have 'wide streets' and 'plenty of green' and 'highways' but they have absolutely no culture or community. TO suburbs are designed for box stores, starbuckses, Olive Gardens and car sales lots. Communities are built around people and culture, the notion that they want to build something 'from the internet up' is laughable and scary. And to wit - we don't even know what that specifically means. They've just committed to doing something 'Googly'. This kind of futurism/utopianism has been tried so often, have a look at any of the old school world expos. When all is said and done, we generally prefer to opt to live in classical old-timey communities like mid-sized European cities (and from other places with history), where technology is added to solve specific problems, not the other way around.

chiefalchemist 8y ago
Yes, all that. Even more concerning? The pattern seems to be that Google refuses to learn from any of its learn experiences (aka mistakes). But politicians are easily charmed, and desperate communities (under-served by their elected officials) easily seduced.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  The waterfront ridings seem to continue to vote for people who promise things which they are completely incapable of offering. My only explanation for it is that they don't want anything done at all, if it's to be done through politics. I would personally prefer measures to reduce the (negative) impact of government on cost of living, to measures which inherently increase it, but voices like mine tend to be crowded out by "urbanists" and "technologists" who think they know precisely what is best for all of us.
pedalpete 8y ago
I'd add in that Toronto has been trying to "revitalize" it's waterfront area since I lived there in the 80s. As far as I know, it has never really become a draw to live down there.
- etimberg 8y ago
  A lot has changed on the waterfront. Areas along Queens Quay have been deindustrialized and are a mix of commercial and residential. Revitalization of the eastern sections of the waterfront has only started more recently with the Lower Don Lands [1] project. The old Unilever factory near the waterfront is also slated for redevelopment. [2] The water quality has also improved to the point where it's safe to swim in the water [3] and the beaches meet the blue flag criteria for the last few years [4, 5]. 1: http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/lower-don-lands-redevelopment http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/lower-don-lands-red... 2: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/preliminary-plans-reveal-scope-unilever-redevelopment http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/preliminary-plans-reveal... 3: http://app.toronto.ca/tpha/beaches.html http://app.toronto.ca/tpha/beaches.html 4: https://environmentaldefence.ca/blue-flag/ https://environmentaldefence.ca/blue-flag/ 5: https://www.toronto.ca/health/swimsafe/beaches_blueflag.htm https://www.toronto.ca/health/swimsafe/beaches_blueflag.htm
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Those are great points, but mostly municipal, not organic or community oriented. Toronto is very civic, the busses run, it 'has everything', it's 'safe', the cops are ok, etc etc.. But communities are organic, you can't just invent them out of nowhere, or construct them. To boot - the waterfront is rather close to a massive highway, and downtown traffic etc. - tough place to do something from scratch.
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      > To boot - the waterfront is rather close to a massive highway, and downtown traffic etc. - tough place to do something from scratch. Granted, having lived directly overlooking said freeway, I can tell you that it is so structurally unsound that I can't imagine it standing for many more years. The supports and roadway are literally falling off in chunks.
acchow 8y ago
> Even when governments get into major urban planning they 'screw it up' - the suburbs of Toronto have 'wide streets' and 'plenty of green' and 'highways' but they have absolutely no culture or community. TO suburbs are designed for box stores, starbuckses, Olive Gardens and car sales lots. This is really hard to do when people want to huddle in their cars/offices/homes/underground for 5 months of the year. Toronto winters are no joke. There's a reason why the underground network (The Path) is so big.
AzzieElbab 8y ago
Oh come on, whatever they will build cannot possibly be worse than Liberty Village

chiefalchemist 8y ago

Yes, all that. Even more concerning? The pattern seems to be that Google refuses to learn from any of its learn experiences (aka mistakes). But politicians are easily charmed, and desperate communities (under-served by their elected officials) easily seduced.

microcolonel 8y ago
The waterfront ridings seem to continue to vote for people who promise things which they are completely incapable of offering. My only explanation for it is that they don't want anything done at all, if it's to be done through politics. I would personally prefer measures to reduce the (negative) impact of government on cost of living, to measures which inherently increase it, but voices like mine tend to be crowded out by "urbanists" and "technologists" who think they know precisely what is best for all of us.

pedalpete 8y ago

I'd add in that Toronto has been trying to "revitalize" it's waterfront area since I lived there in the 80s. As far as I know, it has never really become a draw to live down there.

etimberg 8y ago
A lot has changed on the waterfront. Areas along Queens Quay have been deindustrialized and are a mix of commercial and residential. Revitalization of the eastern sections of the waterfront has only started more recently with the Lower Don Lands [1] project. The old Unilever factory near the waterfront is also slated for redevelopment. [2] The water quality has also improved to the point where it's safe to swim in the water [3] and the beaches meet the blue flag criteria for the last few years [4, 5]. 1: http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/lower-don-lands-redevelopment http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/lower-don-lands-red... 2: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/preliminary-plans-reveal-scope-unilever-redevelopment http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/preliminary-plans-reveal... 3: http://app.toronto.ca/tpha/beaches.html http://app.toronto.ca/tpha/beaches.html 4: https://environmentaldefence.ca/blue-flag/ https://environmentaldefence.ca/blue-flag/ 5: https://www.toronto.ca/health/swimsafe/beaches_blueflag.htm https://www.toronto.ca/health/swimsafe/beaches_blueflag.htm
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Those are great points, but mostly municipal, not organic or community oriented. Toronto is very civic, the busses run, it 'has everything', it's 'safe', the cops are ok, etc etc.. But communities are organic, you can't just invent them out of nowhere, or construct them. To boot - the waterfront is rather close to a massive highway, and downtown traffic etc. - tough place to do something from scratch.
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    > To boot - the waterfront is rather close to a massive highway, and downtown traffic etc. - tough place to do something from scratch. Granted, having lived directly overlooking said freeway, I can tell you that it is so structurally unsound that I can't imagine it standing for many more years. The supports and roadway are literally falling off in chunks.

acchow 8y ago

> Even when governments get into major urban planning they 'screw it up' - the suburbs of Toronto have 'wide streets' and 'plenty of green' and 'highways' but they have absolutely no culture or community. TO suburbs are designed for box stores, starbuckses, Olive Gardens and car sales lots. This is really hard to do when people want to huddle in their cars/offices/homes/underground for 5 months of the year. Toronto winters are no joke. There's a reason why the underground network (The Path) is so big.

AzzieElbab 8y ago

Oh come on, whatever they will build cannot possibly be worse than Liberty Village