5 ms·

Why not simply use Java or C#? No one writes desktop software in JS

by openIce 8y ago

atlasM 8y ago
Doesn’t everyone write desktop software in JS now? Discord, VSCode, Skype, etc all use Electron
endless1234 8y ago
You may not like them, but saying no one writes Electron apps is a bit disingenuous, no?
beojan 8y ago
Far too many people write desktop software in JS. I wish they wouldn't, but they do.
- aphextron 8y ago
  It's not so much the greatness of JS that attracts people, but having access to the DOM and browser based rendering. HTML/CSS is the very best possible declarative syntax for building interfaces ever devised really. The alternatives are way less flexible and cross platform.
  - drcode 8y ago
    > HTML/CSS is the very best possible declarative syntax for building interfaces ever devised really. Well... I wouldn't go that far, but over the years we've all managed to work around the warts of HTML/CSS and can put up with it.
    - aphextron 8y ago
      My argument basically comes down to the alternatives. Have you tried them? Native iOS development was a nightmare without deep mobile expertise until React Native and the like came about. Windows/Linux/Mac cross-platform apps were in the same place before Electron. IT's far from perfect, but ask anyone today what they'd prefer to build an interface with and it's most like HTML/CSS. Especially for highly graphic intensive, responsive layouts, there's almost no competition really.
      - drcode 8y ago
        Well, I think it would be pretty easy to take the best ideas from HTML/CSS and make something MUCH MUCH better that would be completely incompatible with these- See for instance subform (https://medium.com/subform https://medium.com/subform) The problem with this of course is that these alternative systems aren't widely supported, but at some point I expect one of the AFGAMs to publish and push one of these alternate layout systems and attempt to get higher adoption. (Amazon Facebook Google Apple Microsoft)
      - beojan 8y ago
        > Native iOS development was a nightmare without deep mobile expertise until React Native and the like came about. Doing things well requires expertise. > Windows/Linux/Mac cross-platform apps were in the same place before Electron. Seriously?! Qt predates Electron and is a far superior solution. Of course, if you only know web development, your existing knowledge doesn't translate over easily, but the reverse is equally true. > but ask anyone today what they'd prefer to build an interface with and it's most like HTML/CSS Only if they are already experienced in web development. Otherwise, Qt Quick is much better, taking the positives from CSS, without the downsides of using a document format to layout a UI. > Especially for highly graphic intensive, responsive layouts, there's almost no competition really. Seriously, Qt Quick is far better. Though on the desktop, you'd be better off not building a "highly graphic intensive, responsive layout" and instead adhering to the established norms.
  - beojan 8y ago
    HTML and CSS are actually a pretty terrible syntax for building interfaces, which is unsurprising given HTML is a document format, and CSS is designed to style documents. If they were really the best possible syntax, you wouldn't have so many popular frameworks. Rather, HTML/CSS/JS is what you're stuck with if you're treating the web as your platform, which is tempting when your code is really just a front-end for a remotely hosted system anyway. Electron is the result of people trained in web development turning their hands to desktop development, but not wanting to learn something completely new.
    - aphextron 8y ago
      >Electron is the result of people trained in web development turning their hands to desktop development, but not wanting to learn something completely new. "Learning something new" has a massive cost when you apply that to an entire engineering team. A tool that can leverage existing resources to make people proficient in a new area simply through new technology would be a huge value added IMO.
      - beojan 8y ago
        Electron just externalizes the cost, it doesn't eliminate it. Electron is a little like auto-translating your UI. It's easier for the developer and the user pays the price.
    - kevinsimper 8y ago
      Your argument would be much stronger if you actually provided the better alternative, instead you don't bring anything new to the conversation.
      - beojan 8y ago
        Qt Quick. Really, anything that has layouts (Windows Forms, for instance).
  - eip 8y ago
    There is a big difference between being the 'best possible' and being the best out of a variety of crappy alternatives.
nso95 8y ago
Lots of people write desktop software in JS.
- whoaminow 8y ago
  Lots of people sniff glue, doesn't mean they should.
  - nso95 8y ago
    I didn’t say they should.

Why not simply use Java or C#? No one writes desktop software in JS

atlasM 8y ago

Doesn’t everyone write desktop software in JS now? Discord, VSCode, Skype, etc all use Electron

endless1234 8y ago

You may not like them, but saying no one writes Electron apps is a bit disingenuous, no?

beojan 8y ago

Far too many people write desktop software in JS. I wish they wouldn't, but they do.

aphextron 8y ago
It's not so much the greatness of JS that attracts people, but having access to the DOM and browser based rendering. HTML/CSS is the very best possible declarative syntax for building interfaces ever devised really. The alternatives are way less flexible and cross platform.
- drcode 8y ago
  > HTML/CSS is the very best possible declarative syntax for building interfaces ever devised really. Well... I wouldn't go that far, but over the years we've all managed to work around the warts of HTML/CSS and can put up with it.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    My argument basically comes down to the alternatives. Have you tried them? Native iOS development was a nightmare without deep mobile expertise until React Native and the like came about. Windows/Linux/Mac cross-platform apps were in the same place before Electron. IT's far from perfect, but ask anyone today what they'd prefer to build an interface with and it's most like HTML/CSS. Especially for highly graphic intensive, responsive layouts, there's almost no competition really.
    - drcode 8y ago
      Well, I think it would be pretty easy to take the best ideas from HTML/CSS and make something MUCH MUCH better that would be completely incompatible with these- See for instance subform (https://medium.com/subform https://medium.com/subform) The problem with this of course is that these alternative systems aren't widely supported, but at some point I expect one of the AFGAMs to publish and push one of these alternate layout systems and attempt to get higher adoption. (Amazon Facebook Google Apple Microsoft)
    - beojan 8y ago
      > Native iOS development was a nightmare without deep mobile expertise until React Native and the like came about. Doing things well requires expertise. > Windows/Linux/Mac cross-platform apps were in the same place before Electron. Seriously?! Qt predates Electron and is a far superior solution. Of course, if you only know web development, your existing knowledge doesn't translate over easily, but the reverse is equally true. > but ask anyone today what they'd prefer to build an interface with and it's most like HTML/CSS Only if they are already experienced in web development. Otherwise, Qt Quick is much better, taking the positives from CSS, without the downsides of using a document format to layout a UI. > Especially for highly graphic intensive, responsive layouts, there's almost no competition really. Seriously, Qt Quick is far better. Though on the desktop, you'd be better off not building a "highly graphic intensive, responsive layout" and instead adhering to the established norms.
- beojan 8y ago
  HTML and CSS are actually a pretty terrible syntax for building interfaces, which is unsurprising given HTML is a document format, and CSS is designed to style documents. If they were really the best possible syntax, you wouldn't have so many popular frameworks. Rather, HTML/CSS/JS is what you're stuck with if you're treating the web as your platform, which is tempting when your code is really just a front-end for a remotely hosted system anyway. Electron is the result of people trained in web development turning their hands to desktop development, but not wanting to learn something completely new.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    >Electron is the result of people trained in web development turning their hands to desktop development, but not wanting to learn something completely new. "Learning something new" has a massive cost when you apply that to an entire engineering team. A tool that can leverage existing resources to make people proficient in a new area simply through new technology would be a huge value added IMO.
    - beojan 8y ago
      Electron just externalizes the cost, it doesn't eliminate it. Electron is a little like auto-translating your UI. It's easier for the developer and the user pays the price.
  - kevinsimper 8y ago
    Your argument would be much stronger if you actually provided the better alternative, instead you don't bring anything new to the conversation.
    - beojan 8y ago
      Qt Quick. Really, anything that has layouts (Windows Forms, for instance).
- eip 8y ago
  There is a big difference between being the 'best possible' and being the best out of a variety of crappy alternatives.

nso95 8y ago

Lots of people write desktop software in JS.

whoaminow 8y ago
Lots of people sniff glue, doesn't mean they should.
- nso95 8y ago
  I didn’t say they should.