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It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a l

It's hard to explain the levels of stupidity in this. - people trading 'coins' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off electricity and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Seattle's. I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so many naive people are into this plopping their hard-earned money into a well-functioning sinkhole.

jimnotgym 8y ago
Whilst I agree that it is a sinkhole, I also hold a fraction of a bitcoin just-in-case I am totally wrong! I don't want to say to my kids, "in my day you could still buy a bitcoin for only $7k."
- deleted 8y ago
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- briandear 8y ago
  The other side is that you paid $7,000 for a pet rock.
  - adsfasdfsad111 8y ago
    My 7X year over year gains disagree with you ;)
  - jimnotgym 8y ago
    > a fraction of a bitcoin Significantly less than $7k worth. I paid £30 for a framed print and that sits on the wall doing nothing (it's resale value is probably a fiver on ebay), I have even bought a particularly pleasant rock on more than one occasion, pet or not. I have no use for them. Some are sat on the side because I like to look at the impressions of the creatures who died in it. Some are embedded in my wife's engagement ring (a pointless piece of bent metal), I'm not sure I get any value for them any more since we are married. Why do we ascribe value to anything? I have a piece of paper in my wallet with a picture of the queen on. It's just a piece of paper, yet if I take it to the shop they will swap it for food! If I take it to the bank they will swap it for a number in a database (woop). Yet if I have a big number in that database or a lot of those special pictures I become a Big Man in society. Yet, through no fault of my own, if I wanted to swap those pieces of paper for pieces with dead US presidents on, I would get 20% less than I would have 2 years ago! It would be worse but the value of dead-president-paper is not as high as it was. Holding Queen-paper or Dead-president-paper sounds like a huge risk.
hourislate 8y ago
>I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so many naive people are into this plopping their hard-earned money into a well-functioning sinkhole. George Soros said it best, " All of financial history is one lie and deceit after another, your job as a speculator is to get on the lie while it is being propagated and get off before everyone finds out". I feel like a lot of folks are going to get burned but what do I know? I could be full of shit....
- kadenshep 8y ago
  Is there a source for this quote? I'm having trouble finding it.
- andirk 8y ago
  Is there a basis to this claim that Bitcoin is a lie?
  - hourislate 8y ago
    Is there a basis to the claim that it isn't? At this time it's anyone's guess. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet along with a handful of others seem to think it is, who am I to disagree with them. I'm indifferent since I don't have a dog in the fight.
    - andirk 8y ago
      Bill Gates Oct 2014: "Bitcoin is better than currency in that you don’t have to be physically in the same place and, of course, for large transactions, currency can get pretty inconvenient." And financial transactions will eventually “be digital, universal and almost free.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2014-10-02/bill-gates-bitcoin-is-exciting-because-its-cheap https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2014-10-02/bill-gates-... Bill Gates May 2018: "I would short bitcoin if I could." <-- He can. He didn't bother to look into it though. Elon Musk also said on stage that Bitcoin is mainly for illegal use. Based on what? https://youtu.be/7WMJs1v63C0?t=2m50s https://youtu.be/7WMJs1v63C0?t=2m50s He barely knows anything about crypto, and neither do these other guys, and they talk like they do. They DO have a horse in this race, and it's clearly in fiat USD. They're not omniscient and neither are we, so let's keep our eyes and ears open.
matthewaveryusa 8y ago
Well now you know what the market cap is for snake oil. For the first time we've gotten a clear view of the market size -- and with that kind of size there's no doubt this won't be the last one.
- imh 8y ago
  It's not exactly snake oil because you used to be able to buy thinks with it. It's just become snake oil. Maybe that's pedantic, but I don't think it would have become large if it hadn't initially been on a path towards being useful as a currency.
  - twblalock 8y ago
    You can still buy things with it. The only thing that has really changed is way more people are speculating on it than before, and that's revealing some serious scalability problems with the blockchain and security/trust problems with the exchanges.
    - imh 8y ago
      Everything I buy except for maybe my mortgage, I decide to buy it and expect that within moments the payment will go through. I expect it to be cash-like in ease and quickness. For a while bitcoin looked to be headed that way, but no longer.
  - lazyasciiart 8y ago
    Snake oil has actual medical benefits. It wouldn't have become a widely known fake cure-all ripoff if it hadn't initially been useful as a medicine.
    - imh 8y ago
      Oh cool. TIL, thanks. Seems like a kinda perfect analogy then.
jMyles 8y ago
I think bitcoin is kinda dumb too, but I do have some confidence in blockchain tech generally based on its history so far (ie, the good parts of bitcoin). > I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap Begin by addressing the actual strengths of blockchain tech (I think the weaknesses are fairly stated in this thread). So far, in its short life, it has provided: 1) A store of value that can be easily held on the person and that lives outside the state-corporate banking infrastructure 2) A way to buy psychoactive compounds and other medicines which have been wrongly (and violently) prohibited. Although I have no problem with Pokemon, nor do I judge people's proclivity to collect them, I do think that cryptocurrency has already achieved something that Pokemon haven't. edit: Ouch - quite a lot of downvotes with no rebuttal. I guess we're in an anti-blockchain mood this morning.
- mythrwy 8y ago
  A set of objective financial rules into a place full of whim, abuse, corruption and stupidity. And that idea is pretty powerful (even if the manifestations thus far still seem to be pretty much the above as well).
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  I think you're underselling Pokemon.
bdcravens 8y ago
I realize it's easy to speak in a derogatory manner about something we don't like and hope it will go away, but I think that ignores the reality: for now, and for several years, a lot of people have made a lot of money. It may be an opportunity, or it may be a problem that needs addressing, but after 9+ years, I think there comes a point where it's no longer a sinkhole.
- hyperbovine 8y ago
  A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Color me skeptical.
  - bdcravens 8y ago
    Don't really understand where your question is coming from. Are you implying that exchanges aren't real? That people never cash out? Even so, how much wealth in this world is based in "actual, hard currency"? How many developers have unvested options? How much of Musk's wealth is in the bank as opposed to tied up in his businesses? I think you're trying to stand up a strawman.
  - Gargoyle 8y ago
    >A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Yes. Definitely.
- ggggtez 8y ago
  That's not how bubbles work. It can still be worthless snakeoil even if someone pays you for it.
  - bdcravens 8y ago
    Of course. Many have become rich investing in startups that added no value to the world as well. My point is the many arguments that this is a just a house of cards that will inevitably come crashing down, and I don't think that's the case. A bubble by definition has to pop. A fad has to pass. At what point does something become entrenched to the point that its continuing existence is essentially guaranteed?
jesusthatsgreat 8y ago
What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the gold standard for crypto then it's value will rise accordingly.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  Facebook actually makes money. That's the difference.
  - momentmaker 8y ago
    What is money really? Is it just people's attention? Isn't that what Facebook is capturing then selling off to advertisers? Isn't that what Bitcoin is doing as well? Capturing people's attention as well as development resources (minds/energy) from some of the smartest people right now?
- PrimHelios 8y ago
  The stock market is relatively stable. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies can fluctuate hundreds or even thousands per day. Crypto is meaningless, stock is actually owning part of a company.
- krrrh 8y ago
  Facebook and Snap became part of most people’s lives within a few years. Bitcoin has been around for 10, and aside from trading bitcoin, has found very limited use. That’s what makes it different. Every prediction for what Bitcoin would be good for, and what would justify its price has failed to come to fruition.
  - russdpale 8y ago
    I believe Venezuela proves you completely wrong. You should read up on what is going on there with Bitcoin. What Satoshi envisioned is actually happening there. The fact that bitcoin has gone 10 years, with limited use, to me signals just how amazing the technology is. Ten years is nothing for a tech that can last 1000 (or more..).
mythrwy 8y ago
Well-functioning sinkholes are better than the other kind.
twblalock 8y ago
It reminds me of Pogs.
dvlsg 8y ago
I find myself hoping it implodes sooner rather than later. Purely selfish on my part - but I would like to be able to buy a new graphics card some day. I'm already dreading the insane scramble when Nvidia announces their new cards (likely this summer).
- dahdum 8y ago
  Crypto and the AI boom are funneling money to Nvidia for R&D and to ramp up production. If you want advancement in graphics cards to come more quickly, it’s not a bad trend.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    One good thing that comes out of this at least, though it's not only cryptocurrencies, it's AI as well.
  - Macha 8y ago
    However, after crypto blew up in their face last time (they ramped up production just before bitcoin gpu mining got replaced by ASICs and ended up with a load of unwanted GPUs), they haven't been so quick to ramp up production this time.
  - dvlsg 8y ago
    I _do_ want advancement to come more quickly - but I also want to have access to those benefits. Hopefully both can be achieved.
- navbaker 8y ago
  I last built a gaming rig in 2012 and just this January decided it was time to upgrade. It took me a bit to figure out why the hell a mid-range graphics card was $700 minimum.
  - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
    Good for Xbox and PlayStation which are screaming deals right now.
josu 8y ago
This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999: - people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of the 20th century. Many people were left holding pets.com stocks, but others were left holding Amazon stocks. Most of the things that you point out are truisms that the people that have been in the bitcoin space for a few years also see. I would suggest you make an effort, and try to see through all the bullshit projects or outright scams, and you will see that there is real value in what bitcoin and a handful of other projects are trying to build. If you want to avoid the current noise, read what cypherpunks were writing about in 1998: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1998/12/msg00203.html http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1998/12/msg00203.html
- lele92n 8y ago
  You’ve generalized to a point of nonsense, I’m afraid Amazon and Pets.com didn’t possess truly novel tech, to a trained eye I don’t think truly novel tech matters much to most people. I think ease of utilitarian life is good enough We don’t need the energy sucking monstrosity that are the data centers we have if we looked at different models of commerce This is just getting people to be tribal over something that appears magical but will fade out Goodhart’s Law, Buffets Institutional imperative, and similar ideas, will win out. Human quest for novelty will end bitcoin and its tribal urges for nostalgia and fetishizing their LEGO train Humanity doesn’t care to ogle dead men’s workshops showcasing their individual brilliance for long
- acdha 8y ago
  The difference is that the Internet had clear useful applications at that point and billions of dollars in real business (not just speculation) was happening annually. Yes, there were plenty VC misfires with no plausible path to profitability — my favorite was cement.com, with free shipping! — but there were tons of existing businesses finding significant value from it and new companies like Amazon, eBay, Travelocity, etc. who were making money on each sale. The daytraders were indeed chasing bad deals but anyone who paid attention to basic market fundamentals wasn't buying those stocks[1]. 10 years into Bitcoin there's still no reason for someone to buy in other than speculation. It's not competitive as a currency and the current “store of value” pivot is undercut by the lack of fundamentals. One particular reason why that comparison doesn't work is that if you had, say, bought AMZN in 1997 even if the stock didn't do great you owned part of a profitable book seller which could carry on just fine even if it never saw rapid growth. Bitcoin doesn't have any value other than its current popularity so there's no floor on the losses if people switch to something else. 1. I actually sat in on some calls with Pets.com around the time one of our clients was thinking about buying them and it was quickly evident that they had no strategy beyond cashing out at the IPO.
teawrecks 8y ago
It's irrelevant what the customer wants to use the electricity for. The increase in electric cars is already challenging how we manage our power grids. If it's in demand, charge more.
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  The only correct response. Lasing out against noise or heat I can understand, but unless electricity is being subsidized, I can't fathom the line of logic people take to justify lashing out against how someone chooses to use electricity they're pay for. I suspect it's due to irrational hate rather than sound reasoning.
  - Thimothy 8y ago
    Well, we know that electricity is subsidized in many ways, see coal, petroleum or solar power for examples. Furthermore, electricity prices do no include environmental externalities. So when you burn so much electricity for things that many people deem wasteful, those people do have reasons to get pissed and yell at you in the internet. Wellcome to modern society!
mmaunder 8y ago
But... but, its math, and new. So it must be cool. Right? Plus when they talk about it they get to say 'crypto' which sounds hackeresque. Humans are hilarious. Anyone here old enough to remember the dot-com boom with absurd business models, that, when questioned, got the response that you obviously just don't 'get it'. Proof of energy consuming work as currency is a sure path to environmental catastrophe.
- justherefortart 8y ago
  Cryptocurrencies are the pet rock or beanie babies of today. It's just on a larger scale of stupidity.
- BLKNSLVR 8y ago
  In regards to the 'cool hysteria' and bandwagon jumping stupidity of humans, classic solutionist mistake being made by the Australian Government: Find a problem that we can solve with Blockchain! https://www.itnews.com.au/news/turnbull-directed-dta-to-study-blockchain-491432 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/turnbull-directed-dta-to-stud... “Lots of vendors were [also] coming to government and talking about blockchain.” Not a good way to determine expenditure...
andirk 8y ago
People trade stocks like they do Pokemon but we call them 'shares'. Does that make it less like Pokemon than calling them 'coins'? Also, you trade coins all the time. It's called coins. Fiat coins.
- civilitty 8y ago
  Yes, it does make it less like coins, because lying about the assets backing a share's value is a quick way to end up in low sec Federal prison for 5 to 20 years.
  - andirk 8y ago
    I completely agree that there are regulations that enforce a somewhat honest economy. But look at 2008. A bunch of cheaters and the only people penalized were the ones who believed in it the most, such as homebuyers at the time. Bitcoin is much more chaotic, but that has its advantages too. For example, it is not tied to a single country's government.
openfuture 8y ago
The technology keeps advancing and once the efficiency reaches a place that some consensus network can become a democratized cloud (the SAFE network is a strong contender) then there will be actual value behind the tokens. For now bitcoin represents the belief in that dream.
russdpale 8y ago
Perhaps it isn't a stupid as you think? Perhaps people like the idea of trading computational power for social mobility? If your computer could do your work for you, leaving you to do whatever you want in life, why would you NOT want that? The stupidity is that we are not all doing this, that we are not tearing down the halls of congress for cheaper power collection methods. What is crazy is that we never demand accountability from our traditional finance system, leaving us to trust a few tremendously wealthy individuals who have no obligation to the rest of society. With bitcoin, there is no trust, in fact this is even a key feature: remove the trust. I think this is an idea that is very powerful, and is something that people like. If you are looking at bitcoin as an investment, then you are already looking at it all wrong. This isn't about investing, its about financial independence. I would suggest you look into the fundamentals again.
- erubin 8y ago
  ultimately real work that produces actual goods and services has to get done. how does computing hashes "do all your work for you, leaving you to do whatever you want in life"
  - russdpale 8y ago
    Yes, the computer crunches the transactions, and you get rewarded in bitcoin. Why should Visa be the only to profit from something like this? So this leaves me to do what I want. I can get another job, or not. Who wouldn't want this? Its a simple idea, trade computation for social mobility. There are people doing this all over Venezuela right now.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
I made the similarity the other day between to crypto-commodities (i refuse to call it coin or currency) and beanie babies... It stuck pretty hard with me. The truth about bitcoin is like beaniebabies they have no value, and despite concensus other wise could at any time be ruined by the decisions of a dozen people or so. Anyone that still believes the “it’s decentralized!!” just because the database is - nonsense has a dose of reality coming. Do I wish I would have gotten in at $5, yea, would I have sold at $20 not $20,000 almost certainly. But it’s over, it’s a fools game now.
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jake_the_third 8y ago
People have and are using bitcoin in legal transactions. Legitimate companies accept it, legitimate customers pay using it, and legitimate products are traded for it. This is reality. If all you want to continue posting emotional comments on how much you hate bitcoin, then by all means I wont stop you. but to attempt to dismiss the currency as a toy strikes me as delusional and a bit sad. Approach this issue (and any other) with a level head. Don't let emotions take control you like this.
- dror 8y ago
  What is the ratio of " Legitimate companies accept it, legitimate customers pay using it, and legitimate products are traded for it." to people using it for money laundering, ransomware and other illegitimate activities. Ransomware would probably not exist if it wasn't for cryptocurrencies. Add the power usage, the graphic card shortage and the illegal activities and I suspect you're two to three order of magnitude larger than legitimate uses. Sooner or later cryptocurrencies will get banned, or at least fully regulated.
  - jake_the_third 8y ago
    All I'm saying is that, like it or not, cryptocurrencies are here to stay. It's far more constructive to focus on providing and improving legitimate services that accept or deal with these currencies than spending energy shouting at the clouds. If you want to continue shouting, be my guest. The rest of use will continue accepting and transacting with these currencies.
Nuzzerino 8y ago
Easy for you to say from the comfort of the first world, but there are other places in the world without the luxury of a functional banking system. Granted there are a lot of idiots trading, which is why I trade myself (easy prey) as it affords me living funds without having to be subordinate to poorly-implemented scrum processes and egotistical brogrammers.

jimnotgym 8y ago

Whilst I agree that it is a sinkhole, I also hold a fraction of a bitcoin just-in-case I am totally wrong! I don't want to say to my kids, "in my day you could still buy a bitcoin for only $7k."

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briandear 8y ago
The other side is that you paid $7,000 for a pet rock.
- adsfasdfsad111 8y ago
  My 7X year over year gains disagree with you ;)
- jimnotgym 8y ago
  > a fraction of a bitcoin Significantly less than $7k worth. I paid £30 for a framed print and that sits on the wall doing nothing (it's resale value is probably a fiver on ebay), I have even bought a particularly pleasant rock on more than one occasion, pet or not. I have no use for them. Some are sat on the side because I like to look at the impressions of the creatures who died in it. Some are embedded in my wife's engagement ring (a pointless piece of bent metal), I'm not sure I get any value for them any more since we are married. Why do we ascribe value to anything? I have a piece of paper in my wallet with a picture of the queen on. It's just a piece of paper, yet if I take it to the shop they will swap it for food! If I take it to the bank they will swap it for a number in a database (woop). Yet if I have a big number in that database or a lot of those special pictures I become a Big Man in society. Yet, through no fault of my own, if I wanted to swap those pieces of paper for pieces with dead US presidents on, I would get 20% less than I would have 2 years ago! It would be worse but the value of dead-president-paper is not as high as it was. Holding Queen-paper or Dead-president-paper sounds like a huge risk.

hourislate 8y ago

>I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap; it's gotten crazy that so many naive people are into this plopping their hard-earned money into a well-functioning sinkhole. George Soros said it best, " All of financial history is one lie and deceit after another, your job as a speculator is to get on the lie while it is being propagated and get off before everyone finds out". I feel like a lot of folks are going to get burned but what do I know? I could be full of shit....

kadenshep 8y ago
Is there a source for this quote? I'm having trouble finding it.
andirk 8y ago
Is there a basis to this claim that Bitcoin is a lie?
- hourislate 8y ago
  Is there a basis to the claim that it isn't? At this time it's anyone's guess. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet along with a handful of others seem to think it is, who am I to disagree with them. I'm indifferent since I don't have a dog in the fight.
  - andirk 8y ago
    Bill Gates Oct 2014: "Bitcoin is better than currency in that you don’t have to be physically in the same place and, of course, for large transactions, currency can get pretty inconvenient." And financial transactions will eventually “be digital, universal and almost free.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2014-10-02/bill-gates-bitcoin-is-exciting-because-its-cheap https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2014-10-02/bill-gates-... Bill Gates May 2018: "I would short bitcoin if I could." <-- He can. He didn't bother to look into it though. Elon Musk also said on stage that Bitcoin is mainly for illegal use. Based on what? https://youtu.be/7WMJs1v63C0?t=2m50s https://youtu.be/7WMJs1v63C0?t=2m50s He barely knows anything about crypto, and neither do these other guys, and they talk like they do. They DO have a horse in this race, and it's clearly in fiat USD. They're not omniscient and neither are we, so let's keep our eyes and ears open.

matthewaveryusa 8y ago

Well now you know what the market cap is for snake oil. For the first time we've gotten a clear view of the market size -- and with that kind of size there's no doubt this won't be the last one.

imh 8y ago
It's not exactly snake oil because you used to be able to buy thinks with it. It's just become snake oil. Maybe that's pedantic, but I don't think it would have become large if it hadn't initially been on a path towards being useful as a currency.
- twblalock 8y ago
  You can still buy things with it. The only thing that has really changed is way more people are speculating on it than before, and that's revealing some serious scalability problems with the blockchain and security/trust problems with the exchanges.
  - imh 8y ago
    Everything I buy except for maybe my mortgage, I decide to buy it and expect that within moments the payment will go through. I expect it to be cash-like in ease and quickness. For a while bitcoin looked to be headed that way, but no longer.
- lazyasciiart 8y ago
  Snake oil has actual medical benefits. It wouldn't have become a widely known fake cure-all ripoff if it hadn't initially been useful as a medicine.
  - imh 8y ago
    Oh cool. TIL, thanks. Seems like a kinda perfect analogy then.

jMyles 8y ago

I think bitcoin is kinda dumb too, but I do have some confidence in blockchain tech generally based on its history so far (ie, the good parts of bitcoin). > I don't know where to begin with this Bitcoin crap Begin by addressing the actual strengths of blockchain tech (I think the weaknesses are fairly stated in this thread). So far, in its short life, it has provided: 1) A store of value that can be easily held on the person and that lives outside the state-corporate banking infrastructure 2) A way to buy psychoactive compounds and other medicines which have been wrongly (and violently) prohibited. Although I have no problem with Pokemon, nor do I judge people's proclivity to collect them, I do think that cryptocurrency has already achieved something that Pokemon haven't. edit: Ouch - quite a lot of downvotes with no rebuttal. I guess we're in an anti-blockchain mood this morning.

mythrwy 8y ago
A set of objective financial rules into a place full of whim, abuse, corruption and stupidity. And that idea is pretty powerful (even if the manifestations thus far still seem to be pretty much the above as well).
joejerryronnie 8y ago
I think you're underselling Pokemon.

bdcravens 8y ago

I realize it's easy to speak in a derogatory manner about something we don't like and hope it will go away, but I think that ignores the reality: for now, and for several years, a lot of people have made a lot of money. It may be an opportunity, or it may be a problem that needs addressing, but after 9+ years, I think there comes a point where it's no longer a sinkhole.

hyperbovine 8y ago
A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Color me skeptical.
- bdcravens 8y ago
  Don't really understand where your question is coming from. Are you implying that exchanges aren't real? That people never cash out? Even so, how much wealth in this world is based in "actual, hard currency"? How many developers have unvested options? How much of Musk's wealth is in the bank as opposed to tied up in his businesses? I think you're trying to stand up a strawman.
- Gargoyle 8y ago
  >A lot of money? As in actual, hard currency? Yes. Definitely.
ggggtez 8y ago
That's not how bubbles work. It can still be worthless snakeoil even if someone pays you for it.
- bdcravens 8y ago
  Of course. Many have become rich investing in startups that added no value to the world as well. My point is the many arguments that this is a just a house of cards that will inevitably come crashing down, and I don't think that's the case. A bubble by definition has to pop. A fad has to pass. At what point does something become entrenched to the point that its continuing existence is essentially guaranteed?

jesusthatsgreat 8y ago

What makes an investment in 'this Bitcoin crap' any different from an investment in say Facebook shares or Snap shares? Aren't they just unnecessary digital crap too that nobody actually needs? Bitcoin has become the gold standard for crypto and many people invest on the basis that there'll be huge growth in the area of blockchain technology and tokenised digital assets in the years to come. If Bitcoin remains the gold standard for crypto then it's value will rise accordingly.

mattmanser 8y ago
Facebook actually makes money. That's the difference.
- momentmaker 8y ago
  What is money really? Is it just people's attention? Isn't that what Facebook is capturing then selling off to advertisers? Isn't that what Bitcoin is doing as well? Capturing people's attention as well as development resources (minds/energy) from some of the smartest people right now?
PrimHelios 8y ago
The stock market is relatively stable. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies can fluctuate hundreds or even thousands per day. Crypto is meaningless, stock is actually owning part of a company.
krrrh 8y ago
Facebook and Snap became part of most people’s lives within a few years. Bitcoin has been around for 10, and aside from trading bitcoin, has found very limited use. That’s what makes it different. Every prediction for what Bitcoin would be good for, and what would justify its price has failed to come to fruition.
- russdpale 8y ago
  I believe Venezuela proves you completely wrong. You should read up on what is going on there with Bitcoin. What Satoshi envisioned is actually happening there. The fact that bitcoin has gone 10 years, with limited use, to me signals just how amazing the technology is. Ten years is nothing for a tech that can last 1000 (or more..).

mythrwy 8y ago

Well-functioning sinkholes are better than the other kind.

twblalock 8y ago

It reminds me of Pogs.

dvlsg 8y ago

I find myself hoping it implodes sooner rather than later. Purely selfish on my part - but I would like to be able to buy a new graphics card some day. I'm already dreading the insane scramble when Nvidia announces their new cards (likely this summer).

dahdum 8y ago
Crypto and the AI boom are funneling money to Nvidia for R&D and to ramp up production. If you want advancement in graphics cards to come more quickly, it’s not a bad trend.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  One good thing that comes out of this at least, though it's not only cryptocurrencies, it's AI as well.
- Macha 8y ago
  However, after crypto blew up in their face last time (they ramped up production just before bitcoin gpu mining got replaced by ASICs and ended up with a load of unwanted GPUs), they haven't been so quick to ramp up production this time.
- dvlsg 8y ago
  I _do_ want advancement to come more quickly - but I also want to have access to those benefits. Hopefully both can be achieved.
navbaker 8y ago
I last built a gaming rig in 2012 and just this January decided it was time to upgrade. It took me a bit to figure out why the hell a mid-range graphics card was $700 minimum.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  Good for Xbox and PlayStation which are screaming deals right now.

josu 8y ago

This comment applies to any revolutionary technology. Let's substitute cryptocurrencies with "the internet" in 1999: - people trading 'stocks' in the same way Pokemon / WWF kids trade cards. - thinking this is actually a long-term 'investment' strategy (well its idiots trading with each other ...) - to top it off, siphoning off capital and giving a load of shitty excuses 'it could be like Detroit at the beginning of the 20th century. Many people were left holding pets.com stocks, but others were left holding Amazon stocks. Most of the things that you point out are truisms that the people that have been in the bitcoin space for a few years also see. I would suggest you make an effort, and try to see through all the bullshit projects or outright scams, and you will see that there is real value in what bitcoin and a handful of other projects are trying to build. If you want to avoid the current noise, read what cypherpunks were writing about in 1998: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1998/12/msg00203.html http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1998/12/msg00203.html

lele92n 8y ago
You’ve generalized to a point of nonsense, I’m afraid Amazon and Pets.com didn’t possess truly novel tech, to a trained eye I don’t think truly novel tech matters much to most people. I think ease of utilitarian life is good enough We don’t need the energy sucking monstrosity that are the data centers we have if we looked at different models of commerce This is just getting people to be tribal over something that appears magical but will fade out Goodhart’s Law, Buffets Institutional imperative, and similar ideas, will win out. Human quest for novelty will end bitcoin and its tribal urges for nostalgia and fetishizing their LEGO train Humanity doesn’t care to ogle dead men’s workshops showcasing their individual brilliance for long
acdha 8y ago
The difference is that the Internet had clear useful applications at that point and billions of dollars in real business (not just speculation) was happening annually. Yes, there were plenty VC misfires with no plausible path to profitability — my favorite was cement.com, with free shipping! — but there were tons of existing businesses finding significant value from it and new companies like Amazon, eBay, Travelocity, etc. who were making money on each sale. The daytraders were indeed chasing bad deals but anyone who paid attention to basic market fundamentals wasn't buying those stocks[1]. 10 years into Bitcoin there's still no reason for someone to buy in other than speculation. It's not competitive as a currency and the current “store of value” pivot is undercut by the lack of fundamentals. One particular reason why that comparison doesn't work is that if you had, say, bought AMZN in 1997 even if the stock didn't do great you owned part of a profitable book seller which could carry on just fine even if it never saw rapid growth. Bitcoin doesn't have any value other than its current popularity so there's no floor on the losses if people switch to something else. 1. I actually sat in on some calls with Pets.com around the time one of our clients was thinking about buying them and it was quickly evident that they had no strategy beyond cashing out at the IPO.

teawrecks 8y ago

It's irrelevant what the customer wants to use the electricity for. The increase in electric cars is already challenging how we manage our power grids. If it's in demand, charge more.

jake_the_third 8y ago
The only correct response. Lasing out against noise or heat I can understand, but unless electricity is being subsidized, I can't fathom the line of logic people take to justify lashing out against how someone chooses to use electricity they're pay for. I suspect it's due to irrational hate rather than sound reasoning.
- Thimothy 8y ago
  Well, we know that electricity is subsidized in many ways, see coal, petroleum or solar power for examples. Furthermore, electricity prices do no include environmental externalities. So when you burn so much electricity for things that many people deem wasteful, those people do have reasons to get pissed and yell at you in the internet. Wellcome to modern society!

mmaunder 8y ago

But... but, its math, and new. So it must be cool. Right? Plus when they talk about it they get to say 'crypto' which sounds hackeresque. Humans are hilarious. Anyone here old enough to remember the dot-com boom with absurd business models, that, when questioned, got the response that you obviously just don't 'get it'. Proof of energy consuming work as currency is a sure path to environmental catastrophe.

justherefortart 8y ago
Cryptocurrencies are the pet rock or beanie babies of today. It's just on a larger scale of stupidity.
BLKNSLVR 8y ago
In regards to the 'cool hysteria' and bandwagon jumping stupidity of humans, classic solutionist mistake being made by the Australian Government: Find a problem that we can solve with Blockchain! https://www.itnews.com.au/news/turnbull-directed-dta-to-study-blockchain-491432 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/turnbull-directed-dta-to-stud... “Lots of vendors were [also] coming to government and talking about blockchain.” Not a good way to determine expenditure...

andirk 8y ago

People trade stocks like they do Pokemon but we call them 'shares'. Does that make it less like Pokemon than calling them 'coins'? Also, you trade coins all the time. It's called coins. Fiat coins.

civilitty 8y ago
Yes, it does make it less like coins, because lying about the assets backing a share's value is a quick way to end up in low sec Federal prison for 5 to 20 years.
- andirk 8y ago
  I completely agree that there are regulations that enforce a somewhat honest economy. But look at 2008. A bunch of cheaters and the only people penalized were the ones who believed in it the most, such as homebuyers at the time. Bitcoin is much more chaotic, but that has its advantages too. For example, it is not tied to a single country's government.

openfuture 8y ago

The technology keeps advancing and once the efficiency reaches a place that some consensus network can become a democratized cloud (the SAFE network is a strong contender) then there will be actual value behind the tokens. For now bitcoin represents the belief in that dream.

russdpale 8y ago

Perhaps it isn't a stupid as you think? Perhaps people like the idea of trading computational power for social mobility? If your computer could do your work for you, leaving you to do whatever you want in life, why would you NOT want that? The stupidity is that we are not all doing this, that we are not tearing down the halls of congress for cheaper power collection methods. What is crazy is that we never demand accountability from our traditional finance system, leaving us to trust a few tremendously wealthy individuals who have no obligation to the rest of society. With bitcoin, there is no trust, in fact this is even a key feature: remove the trust. I think this is an idea that is very powerful, and is something that people like. If you are looking at bitcoin as an investment, then you are already looking at it all wrong. This isn't about investing, its about financial independence. I would suggest you look into the fundamentals again.

erubin 8y ago
ultimately real work that produces actual goods and services has to get done. how does computing hashes "do all your work for you, leaving you to do whatever you want in life"
- russdpale 8y ago
  Yes, the computer crunches the transactions, and you get rewarded in bitcoin. Why should Visa be the only to profit from something like this? So this leaves me to do what I want. I can get another job, or not. Who wouldn't want this? Its a simple idea, trade computation for social mobility. There are people doing this all over Venezuela right now.

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago

I made the similarity the other day between to crypto-commodities (i refuse to call it coin or currency) and beanie babies... It stuck pretty hard with me. The truth about bitcoin is like beaniebabies they have no value, and despite concensus other wise could at any time be ruined by the decisions of a dozen people or so. Anyone that still believes the “it’s decentralized!!” just because the database is - nonsense has a dose of reality coming. Do I wish I would have gotten in at $5, yea, would I have sold at $20 not $20,000 almost certainly. But it’s over, it’s a fools game now.

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jake_the_third 8y ago

People have and are using bitcoin in legal transactions. Legitimate companies accept it, legitimate customers pay using it, and legitimate products are traded for it. This is reality. If all you want to continue posting emotional comments on how much you hate bitcoin, then by all means I wont stop you. but to attempt to dismiss the currency as a toy strikes me as delusional and a bit sad. Approach this issue (and any other) with a level head. Don't let emotions take control you like this.

dror 8y ago
What is the ratio of " Legitimate companies accept it, legitimate customers pay using it, and legitimate products are traded for it." to people using it for money laundering, ransomware and other illegitimate activities. Ransomware would probably not exist if it wasn't for cryptocurrencies. Add the power usage, the graphic card shortage and the illegal activities and I suspect you're two to three order of magnitude larger than legitimate uses. Sooner or later cryptocurrencies will get banned, or at least fully regulated.
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  All I'm saying is that, like it or not, cryptocurrencies are here to stay. It's far more constructive to focus on providing and improving legitimate services that accept or deal with these currencies than spending energy shouting at the clouds. If you want to continue shouting, be my guest. The rest of use will continue accepting and transacting with these currencies.

Nuzzerino 8y ago

Easy for you to say from the comfort of the first world, but there are other places in the world without the luxury of a functional banking system. Granted there are a lot of idiots trading, which is why I trade myself (easy prey) as it affords me living funds without having to be subordinate to poorly-implemented scrum processes and egotistical brogrammers.