8 ms·

I use their toothpaste all the time. It has a very earthy organic flavor and immediately contrasts with the strong 'chemical' taste of traditional toothpaste.

by modi15 8y ago

I use their toothpaste all the time. It has a very earthy organic flavor and immediately contrasts with the strong 'chemical' taste of traditional toothpaste. To be fair, the toothpaste though is an exception. Most of the patanjali products are similar to other products on the market - the only difference seem to be that they skip the strong flavors/chemicals in favor of the basic ones and market it as more 'organic'. The subtext is that they are also a LOT cheaper so the market laps it up. Indians have a widespread distrust of western personal care products and the science of Ayurveda is considered superior. Patanjali has taken the first step in monetizing this belief at scale. I don't think they would be the last. Ayurveda is poised to go the way of Yoga. Everyone should get ready to hop on.

adictator 8y ago
The best thing is that other companies like Colgate etc have started including the Panchanga (Hindu calendar) to voo consumers. Otherwise there is no way they can even compete with Patanjali brands. This is a new age that is beginning, an age of truth & hopefully it will continue. Try Patanjali's Chyawanprash as well, much better than the others.
blindwatchmaker 8y ago
Hop onto using products based on pseudoscience instead of stuff that's actually clinically tested? It seems pretty dangerous too: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/ The number of people from India who fall for this nonsense is astonishing; it would make more sense if it was just targeted at the poor and uneducated, but it seems to encompass everyone. I guess education doesn't cure stupid.
- mayankkaizen 8y ago
  Be careful when you try to paint an entire field with a single color. There is a prevalent trend of doing this even though one can't even name 3 not so typical ayurvedic medicines. Ayurvedic system isn't completely pseudo-science, though there are some nonsensical stuffs here and there. I mean when someone says ayurvedic system can treat cancer, you have reasons to laugh at it. I am not a doctor or even a pharmacist but my dad's been running a medical shop since last 45 years. And he sells entire range of Ayurvedic medicines along with allopathic medicines. I know of hundreds of cases where ayurvedic medicines performed far better than allopathic medicines. Yes hundreds of cases. In fact, even I myself have recommended ( and have used myself) a particular ayurvedic medicine for treatment of chronic fever where allopathic treatment just didn't work. And it worked miraculously in every single cases. There are countless other examples. My point is, don't call ayurvedic system pseudoscience just because it is 'intellectually superior' viewpoint. Have seen too many people calling ayurvedic system bullshit even when they can't even tell the name of 3 medicines.
  - 52-6F-62 8y ago
    If you’re trying to legitimize something that isn’t rooted in modern science, I’d advise against the use of “allopathic” as the adjective of choice when speaking of modern, science-based medical study. The term was coined by a homeopathic doctor with he perceived intent of siloing modern scientific medication and medical study rather than attributing the legitimacy it’s earned due to the accepted rigours of the scientific process. Not that homeopathic or Ayurvedic is not necessarily effective, but unless it’s submitted to the rigours of scientific study, it’s not science. Therefore if it passes itself off as science, it is a pseudoscience. In that case it doesn’t matter how many names anyone knows.
    - shardinator 8y ago
      Not science != not true
      - 52-6F-62 8y ago
        Nobody said that. The point was `not science != science` Science is a course to best-effort prove things to be true—to that end it's been the most successful yet. The reason it's been successful is rigorous testing and data-gathering. And intellectual honesty. That's another discussion, maybe.
        shardinator 8y ago
        Yes fair enough, good points.
      - gus_massa 8y ago
        I agree, but if something really works the profit seeking soulless bigpharma corporation will run a clinical experiment and start to sell it in bottles. So if some cure is true and has a wide profitable market, it will be part of science soon. Most of the traditional cures that worked has been absorbed in science and are no longer call "traditional". What we call "traditional" are the leftovers.
- xevb3k 8y ago
  It’s all about trust. It’s all about in the western world too. How many people understand how their medicine works, or even the processes by which their medicine is vetted. Or even the statistics around their medicine? In general, I’d guess they don’t. The vast majority of people just trust that the system works and is not corrupt. So I wouldn’t be too quick to judge. Because we’re starting to see a break down in trust in the western world too (for example with the anti-vaccination movement). And because trust doesn’t have a firm rational basis, once it breaks down it’s hard to restore...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - xevb3k 8y ago
    I would be honestly curious to understand what people object to in this comment.
    - tcj_phx 8y ago
      I didn't vote your comment down, but I would suspect it was this line: > Because we’re starting to see a break down in trust in the western world too (for example with the anti-vaccination movement). This sentence is borderline-sympathetic with the anti-vaccination crowd. The most down-voted comment I've ever posted at HN was somewhat anti-vaccination: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17059316 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17059316 (I had chickenpox. Once. It was a very mild case. If the medical scientists cared about science, they'd try to figure out why children have varying levels of severity in their immunity-building experiences of chickenpox. But vaccines are perfectly safe (except for the children who definitely can't have them), so the official medical standard of care calls for vaccinating against everything as soon as possible.)
      - xevb3k 8y ago
        Oh, it wasn’t meant to be sympathetic at all. I guess I didn’t clearly express myself. I was trying to point out that belief in pseudo-science comes about through a loss of trust in societies institutions. Why people lose trust is another discussion, but I don’t think it’s through an entirely rational process...
- modi15 8y ago
  Yoga was pseudoscience once. Now there is overwhelming evidence in support of it. Ayurveda descends from a similar lineage. The turmeric latte that the western world is infatuated with at the moment is just the tip of the Ayurveda iceberg. The only reason Ayurveda isnt backed clinically is because it hasnt been subjected to it. But it will, exactly the way Yoga did. Yoga and Ayurveda are backed by science the just not in a clinical sense because it wasnt possible back then. They still went through an iterative development phase rooted in experiments and observation. Also, the link you quoted doesnt discredit Ayurveda at all. Its about medicines sold in the name of Ayurveda having heavy metals.
  - chx 8y ago
    > Yoga was pseudoscience once. Now there is overwhelming evidence in support of it. Support of what?? Last I checked, there is a lack of (quality) studies comparing yoga to other forms of exercise. Also, https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wre...
    - thevardanian 8y ago
      For example breathing techniques help in concentration "The Yogi masters were right – breathing exercises can sharpen your mind. New research explains link between breath-focused meditation and brain health" http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/the-yogi-masters-were-right-breathing-exercises-can-sharpen-your-mind/8917 http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/the-yogi-masters-were... Not to mention the link between psychology conditions, like anxiety, depression, etc. and breathing. Studies show that breathing techniques help improve mood, and in fact inviduals that have improper breathing, or arrhythmic breathing also tend to be afflicted by certain psychological ailments which when improved also reduce, and in some cases cure individuals.
      - civilitty 8y ago
        He asked for evidence on the effectiveness of yoga specifically, not meditation techniques in general. Just because yoga and meditation have components of deep breathing doesn't mean that you can use research on the latter to support the former without a deep dive into the research methodology.
- code_duck 8y ago
  I would call much of western medicine pseudoscience, or perhaps more accurately fraud. I’m referring to when drugs that are widely prescribed turn out to be ineffective once unbiased studies are done, or it comes out they have harmful side effects that the manufacturer covered up.
  - grosjona 8y ago
    That's an interesting way to look at it and probably true. Almost everything is a fraud these days. It's extremely rare to come across a product that delivers on its promises. The problem is that everyone is just too stupid to see through the marketing. Regardless of whether the marketing poses as science or religion.
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  Many common western products are borderline fraud: Cold medicines and pretty much all beauty products for example. The FDA doesn’t care that the majority of cold medicines in Walgreens don’t work better than placebo because they’re deemed safe.
  - rootw0rm 8y ago
    Cold medicines are pretty up front that they're just treating symptoms though, not actually curing the cold. Tylenol PM has been a godsend a time or two when I had a cold and needed to sleep because I didn't have the luxury of calling out sick. I agree with you if you're talking about cough medicines though, because except for rare circumstances they are pretty much useless. Still gotta love DXM and that purple n yellow tho.
    - girvo 8y ago
      Dihydrocodeine is pretty effective at suppressing cough.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - simplecomplex 8y ago
      Cold medicine is usually a combination of Acetaminophen, Dextromethorphan, and Phenelyphrine. ALL of which are no better than placebo in randomized trials and meta studies, especially when you exclude industry funded ones or at doses found in over the counter cold medicines.
perfectstorm 8y ago
you're aware that Nepal has rejected many of their products ? The current government of India is in bed with Ramdev so there won't be any bans. it's very easy to give "organic flavors" and I can't believe educated people would fall for their traps. Source: https://www.firstpost.com/india/nepal-drug-administration-reject-six-patanjali-products-after-tests-contain-pathogenic-bacteria-3735231.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/nepal-drug-administration-re...
- modi15 8y ago
  'Educated' people once believed the earth was flat. We all know how that worked out. Nepal has rejected Ayurveda products manufactured by one company because of contaminants. How is that a statement on the efficacy of Ayurveda ? There has been contamination found in batches of Coke/Pepsi bottles also in India - none of it is a statement on the efficacy of the underlying product.
  - JimDabell 8y ago
    > 'Educated' people once believed the earth was flat. This is a myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
    - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
      Belief in a flat earth being a myth is, as your own link says, specifically about Europe in the Medieval era. No one denies that people considered the learned ones in their community at other times and places believed in a flat earth.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Ayurveda is considered superior “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1]. (Yoga, on the other hand, has measurable benefits.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda
pvaldes 8y ago
There are fluorless toothpastes based in fine powdered white caolin (or so) but I'm sceptic about is real benefits at long term. Is a polishment. This history brings a new meaning to the term tooth paste in any case.

by modi15 8y ago

adictator 8y ago

The best thing is that other companies like Colgate etc have started including the Panchanga (Hindu calendar) to voo consumers. Otherwise there is no way they can even compete with Patanjali brands. This is a new age that is beginning, an age of truth & hopefully it will continue. Try Patanjali's Chyawanprash as well, much better than the others.

blindwatchmaker 8y ago

Hop onto using products based on pseudoscience instead of stuff that's actually clinically tested? It seems pretty dangerous too: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/ The number of people from India who fall for this nonsense is astonishing; it would make more sense if it was just targeted at the poor and uneducated, but it seems to encompass everyone. I guess education doesn't cure stupid.

mayankkaizen 8y ago
Be careful when you try to paint an entire field with a single color. There is a prevalent trend of doing this even though one can't even name 3 not so typical ayurvedic medicines. Ayurvedic system isn't completely pseudo-science, though there are some nonsensical stuffs here and there. I mean when someone says ayurvedic system can treat cancer, you have reasons to laugh at it. I am not a doctor or even a pharmacist but my dad's been running a medical shop since last 45 years. And he sells entire range of Ayurvedic medicines along with allopathic medicines. I know of hundreds of cases where ayurvedic medicines performed far better than allopathic medicines. Yes hundreds of cases. In fact, even I myself have recommended ( and have used myself) a particular ayurvedic medicine for treatment of chronic fever where allopathic treatment just didn't work. And it worked miraculously in every single cases. There are countless other examples. My point is, don't call ayurvedic system pseudoscience just because it is 'intellectually superior' viewpoint. Have seen too many people calling ayurvedic system bullshit even when they can't even tell the name of 3 medicines.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  If you’re trying to legitimize something that isn’t rooted in modern science, I’d advise against the use of “allopathic” as the adjective of choice when speaking of modern, science-based medical study. The term was coined by a homeopathic doctor with he perceived intent of siloing modern scientific medication and medical study rather than attributing the legitimacy it’s earned due to the accepted rigours of the scientific process. Not that homeopathic or Ayurvedic is not necessarily effective, but unless it’s submitted to the rigours of scientific study, it’s not science. Therefore if it passes itself off as science, it is a pseudoscience. In that case it doesn’t matter how many names anyone knows.
  - shardinator 8y ago
    Not science != not true
    - 52-6F-62 8y ago
      Nobody said that. The point was `not science != science` Science is a course to best-effort prove things to be true—to that end it's been the most successful yet. The reason it's been successful is rigorous testing and data-gathering. And intellectual honesty. That's another discussion, maybe.
      - shardinator 8y ago
        Yes fair enough, good points.
    - gus_massa 8y ago
      I agree, but if something really works the profit seeking soulless bigpharma corporation will run a clinical experiment and start to sell it in bottles. So if some cure is true and has a wide profitable market, it will be part of science soon. Most of the traditional cures that worked has been absorbed in science and are no longer call "traditional". What we call "traditional" are the leftovers.
xevb3k 8y ago
It’s all about trust. It’s all about in the western world too. How many people understand how their medicine works, or even the processes by which their medicine is vetted. Or even the statistics around their medicine? In general, I’d guess they don’t. The vast majority of people just trust that the system works and is not corrupt. So I wouldn’t be too quick to judge. Because we’re starting to see a break down in trust in the western world too (for example with the anti-vaccination movement). And because trust doesn’t have a firm rational basis, once it breaks down it’s hard to restore...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- xevb3k 8y ago
  I would be honestly curious to understand what people object to in this comment.
  - tcj_phx 8y ago
    I didn't vote your comment down, but I would suspect it was this line: > Because we’re starting to see a break down in trust in the western world too (for example with the anti-vaccination movement). This sentence is borderline-sympathetic with the anti-vaccination crowd. The most down-voted comment I've ever posted at HN was somewhat anti-vaccination: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17059316 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17059316 (I had chickenpox. Once. It was a very mild case. If the medical scientists cared about science, they'd try to figure out why children have varying levels of severity in their immunity-building experiences of chickenpox. But vaccines are perfectly safe (except for the children who definitely can't have them), so the official medical standard of care calls for vaccinating against everything as soon as possible.)
    - xevb3k 8y ago
      Oh, it wasn’t meant to be sympathetic at all. I guess I didn’t clearly express myself. I was trying to point out that belief in pseudo-science comes about through a loss of trust in societies institutions. Why people lose trust is another discussion, but I don’t think it’s through an entirely rational process...
modi15 8y ago
Yoga was pseudoscience once. Now there is overwhelming evidence in support of it. Ayurveda descends from a similar lineage. The turmeric latte that the western world is infatuated with at the moment is just the tip of the Ayurveda iceberg. The only reason Ayurveda isnt backed clinically is because it hasnt been subjected to it. But it will, exactly the way Yoga did. Yoga and Ayurveda are backed by science the just not in a clinical sense because it wasnt possible back then. They still went through an iterative development phase rooted in experiments and observation. Also, the link you quoted doesnt discredit Ayurveda at all. Its about medicines sold in the name of Ayurveda having heavy metals.
- chx 8y ago
  > Yoga was pseudoscience once. Now there is overwhelming evidence in support of it. Support of what?? Last I checked, there is a lack of (quality) studies comparing yoga to other forms of exercise. Also, https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wreck-your-body.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wre...
  - thevardanian 8y ago
    For example breathing techniques help in concentration "The Yogi masters were right – breathing exercises can sharpen your mind. New research explains link between breath-focused meditation and brain health" http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/the-yogi-masters-were-right-breathing-exercises-can-sharpen-your-mind/8917 http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/the-yogi-masters-were... Not to mention the link between psychology conditions, like anxiety, depression, etc. and breathing. Studies show that breathing techniques help improve mood, and in fact inviduals that have improper breathing, or arrhythmic breathing also tend to be afflicted by certain psychological ailments which when improved also reduce, and in some cases cure individuals.
    - civilitty 8y ago
      He asked for evidence on the effectiveness of yoga specifically, not meditation techniques in general. Just because yoga and meditation have components of deep breathing doesn't mean that you can use research on the latter to support the former without a deep dive into the research methodology.
code_duck 8y ago
I would call much of western medicine pseudoscience, or perhaps more accurately fraud. I’m referring to when drugs that are widely prescribed turn out to be ineffective once unbiased studies are done, or it comes out they have harmful side effects that the manufacturer covered up.
- grosjona 8y ago
  That's an interesting way to look at it and probably true. Almost everything is a fraud these days. It's extremely rare to come across a product that delivers on its promises. The problem is that everyone is just too stupid to see through the marketing. Regardless of whether the marketing poses as science or religion.
simplecomplex 8y ago
Many common western products are borderline fraud: Cold medicines and pretty much all beauty products for example. The FDA doesn’t care that the majority of cold medicines in Walgreens don’t work better than placebo because they’re deemed safe.
- rootw0rm 8y ago
  Cold medicines are pretty up front that they're just treating symptoms though, not actually curing the cold. Tylenol PM has been a godsend a time or two when I had a cold and needed to sleep because I didn't have the luxury of calling out sick. I agree with you if you're talking about cough medicines though, because except for rare circumstances they are pretty much useless. Still gotta love DXM and that purple n yellow tho.
  - girvo 8y ago
    Dihydrocodeine is pretty effective at suppressing cough.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - simplecomplex 8y ago
    Cold medicine is usually a combination of Acetaminophen, Dextromethorphan, and Phenelyphrine. ALL of which are no better than placebo in randomized trials and meta studies, especially when you exclude industry funded ones or at doses found in over the counter cold medicines.

perfectstorm 8y ago

you're aware that Nepal has rejected many of their products ? The current government of India is in bed with Ramdev so there won't be any bans. it's very easy to give "organic flavors" and I can't believe educated people would fall for their traps. Source: https://www.firstpost.com/india/nepal-drug-administration-reject-six-patanjali-products-after-tests-contain-pathogenic-bacteria-3735231.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/nepal-drug-administration-re...

modi15 8y ago
'Educated' people once believed the earth was flat. We all know how that worked out. Nepal has rejected Ayurveda products manufactured by one company because of contaminants. How is that a statement on the efficacy of Ayurveda ? There has been contamination found in batches of Coke/Pepsi bottles also in India - none of it is a statement on the efficacy of the underlying product.
- JimDabell 8y ago
  > 'Educated' people once believed the earth was flat. This is a myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    Belief in a flat earth being a myth is, as your own link says, specifically about Europe in the Medieval era. No one denies that people considered the learned ones in their community at other times and places believed in a flat earth.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Ayurveda is considered superior “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1]. (Yoga, on the other hand, has measurable benefits.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda

pvaldes 8y ago

There are fluorless toothpastes based in fine powdered white caolin (or so) but I'm sceptic about is real benefits at long term. Is a polishment. This history brings a new meaning to the term tooth paste in any case.