4 ms·

I don't get that. Before the sun rises tomorrow, for the US alone, 32 Americans will make a mistake with their car that kills someone (potentially, but unlikely

I don't get that. Before the sun rises tomorrow, for the US alone, 32 Americans will make a mistake with their car that kills someone (potentially, but unlikely, themselves, 2 will kill themselves, 29 will kill someone else, one will kill 2 others, for a total of 33 deaths). At the same time, a further 2000 Americans will injure someone with a car, and another 3000 will cause severe (I believe > 1000$) property damage, mostly on cars. That's on 260 million cars, or an accident rate of something like 1.3% on a yearly basis (unfortunately, this masks the fact that ~70% of those accidents are done by < 10% of drivers. So plenty of people are, frankly, just plain insane and have double digit accident rates). That, we find perfectly acceptable. Drivers that crash cars about once a year are not that rare. And it's not like these people are the ones having minor accidents. Maybe it's just me but ... weird how people's sense of risks work.

finches 8y ago
No, nobody finds that acceptable. Until you stop misrepresenting the people on the supposed "other end" of your "discussion," no one is going to engage you in a real discussion about it, which is (unfortunately) probably why you still continue to think and act this way.
- mcny 8y ago
  I know lots of people who make rants about bad drivers but a. Fail to signal when Turing left into traffic b. Talk on the phone while driving c. Drive home from a bar "because it isn't like I'm black out drunk" A lot of people find risks acceptable if it is them causing it.
davnicwil 8y ago
It's simply that that's not a new risk. Everyone has grown up with knowledge of that risk and accepted it as a given, therefore it is not alarming. I think this is necessary because to constantly evalute and fear ever-present risk would be debilitating. New risks however are alarming, and do trigger the fearful 'better not try that in case the worst happens' response in a lot (the majority?) of people - this probably makes sense as a survival mechanism.
- asynchronous13 8y ago
  Very much this. I've had entertaining conversations with people who were afraid of electric vehicles because they were afraid that the batteries might catch on fire. I asked about driving around with a tank of highly flammable / explosive liquid under the car, and their only response was "that's different." We're comfortable with known risks, but new risks are scary.
  - ngold 8y ago
    When driving a literal explosive feels safer than a driving a battery.
hokus 8y ago
About as safe as early factories. To take the discussion further off topic (sorry) It is quite easy to limit speed to the maximum allowed speed in a country. Its not hard to make a system that requires switching into city or highway mode with logging and/or remote mode detection. If we make a lot of effort we can limit speed by the amount of accidents on that location. We can further limit it by the amount of accidents the driver had in a similar situation.
narag 8y ago
Don't you have a score system? It has a noticeable effect, that probably happens by taking the insane drivers off the road. You start with ten points that you lose with infractions, more points for more serious ones. If you run out of points, you don't drive or face jail.
- jcims 8y ago
  Yes. We usually start at zero though.
- astura 8y ago
  It plain just doesn't work (as implemented.) First off, it is much too lenient and the points drop off your record much too quickly. Most infractions can be reduced in court and many crashes (especially single car crashes) don't result in infractions unless they are serious. Secondly, those people will just drive unlicensed anyway, so it really doesn't matter if we take their license away or put them in jail for a month, they already don't follow the rules and don't give a shit. There's nothing physically preventing someone unlicensed, uninsured, or unfit to drive from climbing into an vehicle, starting the engine, and driving on public roads. The only thing that can deter them is getting arrested after the fact, but that's pretty rare. My dad lost his licence years ago (for good reason) and a judge has denied his application to get it reinstated many times (for good reason). He still drives all the time and still crashes his truck fairly regularly. Sure, he gets arrested once in a while, but that doesn't stop him.
  - narag 8y ago
    The difference seems to be that here in Spain you are seldom sentenced to less than two years. Jail, when you finally get there, is a serious matter. And of course you can't drive in prison so problem solved :) Points and permit revoking are the way to fast-track what otherwise would be administrative sanctions, clustering them to build a criminal case.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Unfortunately one of the downsides of living in one of the non-terrible parts of the US is that you basically need a car to be a functional member of society. The insane drivers stay on the road because they just drive illegally. They borrow their spouses cars and stuff. There isn't much appetite for points systems in the US because points systems just enrich the state and insurance companies at the expense of commuters because our laws about how traffic should work are so detached from what traffic actually does.
rando444 8y ago
You have a choice to get in a car and how far you drive. At the moment you don't have a choice if some idiot cobbled some crap together in his basement, attached a load to it and decides to place it way over top of you in the sky.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  > You have a choice to get in a car and how far you drive. Except I don't drive and I got hit by a car (it backed out into a main road over the pavement (UK) without checking mirrors properly and hit me. Do I also have a choice about going outside my front door?

finches 8y ago

No, nobody finds that acceptable. Until you stop misrepresenting the people on the supposed "other end" of your "discussion," no one is going to engage you in a real discussion about it, which is (unfortunately) probably why you still continue to think and act this way.

mcny 8y ago
I know lots of people who make rants about bad drivers but a. Fail to signal when Turing left into traffic b. Talk on the phone while driving c. Drive home from a bar "because it isn't like I'm black out drunk" A lot of people find risks acceptable if it is them causing it.

davnicwil 8y ago

It's simply that that's not a new risk. Everyone has grown up with knowledge of that risk and accepted it as a given, therefore it is not alarming. I think this is necessary because to constantly evalute and fear ever-present risk would be debilitating. New risks however are alarming, and do trigger the fearful 'better not try that in case the worst happens' response in a lot (the majority?) of people - this probably makes sense as a survival mechanism.

asynchronous13 8y ago
Very much this. I've had entertaining conversations with people who were afraid of electric vehicles because they were afraid that the batteries might catch on fire. I asked about driving around with a tank of highly flammable / explosive liquid under the car, and their only response was "that's different." We're comfortable with known risks, but new risks are scary.
- ngold 8y ago
  When driving a literal explosive feels safer than a driving a battery.

hokus 8y ago

About as safe as early factories. To take the discussion further off topic (sorry) It is quite easy to limit speed to the maximum allowed speed in a country. Its not hard to make a system that requires switching into city or highway mode with logging and/or remote mode detection. If we make a lot of effort we can limit speed by the amount of accidents on that location. We can further limit it by the amount of accidents the driver had in a similar situation.

narag 8y ago

Don't you have a score system? It has a noticeable effect, that probably happens by taking the insane drivers off the road. You start with ten points that you lose with infractions, more points for more serious ones. If you run out of points, you don't drive or face jail.

jcims 8y ago
Yes. We usually start at zero though.
astura 8y ago
It plain just doesn't work (as implemented.) First off, it is much too lenient and the points drop off your record much too quickly. Most infractions can be reduced in court and many crashes (especially single car crashes) don't result in infractions unless they are serious. Secondly, those people will just drive unlicensed anyway, so it really doesn't matter if we take their license away or put them in jail for a month, they already don't follow the rules and don't give a shit. There's nothing physically preventing someone unlicensed, uninsured, or unfit to drive from climbing into an vehicle, starting the engine, and driving on public roads. The only thing that can deter them is getting arrested after the fact, but that's pretty rare. My dad lost his licence years ago (for good reason) and a judge has denied his application to get it reinstated many times (for good reason). He still drives all the time and still crashes his truck fairly regularly. Sure, he gets arrested once in a while, but that doesn't stop him.
- narag 8y ago
  The difference seems to be that here in Spain you are seldom sentenced to less than two years. Jail, when you finally get there, is a serious matter. And of course you can't drive in prison so problem solved :) Points and permit revoking are the way to fast-track what otherwise would be administrative sanctions, clustering them to build a criminal case.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Unfortunately one of the downsides of living in one of the non-terrible parts of the US is that you basically need a car to be a functional member of society. The insane drivers stay on the road because they just drive illegally. They borrow their spouses cars and stuff. There isn't much appetite for points systems in the US because points systems just enrich the state and insurance companies at the expense of commuters because our laws about how traffic should work are so detached from what traffic actually does.

rando444 8y ago

You have a choice to get in a car and how far you drive. At the moment you don't have a choice if some idiot cobbled some crap together in his basement, attached a load to it and decides to place it way over top of you in the sky.

noir_lord 8y ago
> You have a choice to get in a car and how far you drive. Except I don't drive and I got hit by a car (it backed out into a main road over the pavement (UK) without checking mirrors properly and hit me. Do I also have a choice about going outside my front door?