6 ms·

In my experience, crosswalks are counter-productive. They are typically placed in terrible locations, with poor lines of sight, or at otherwise busy and attent

In my experience, crosswalks are counter-productive. They are typically placed in terrible locations, with poor lines of sight, or at otherwise busy and attention-demanding intersections. It is far safer to avoid the hell out of marked crosswalks, and cross the street in other locations, where you can clearly see the flow of traffic, and pick a slot to cross that is safe.

vlan0 8y ago
Unfortunately, the blind and visually impaired rely heavily on crosswalks to cross the road. Attempting to cross without the safety of a crosswalk will certainly result in death.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
bobthepanda 8y ago
The problem is that mid-block crossing only works if traffic is slow and there are appropriate gaps in traffic. As an example, most of America lives in places that have streets that are eight to eleven lanes wide, with posted speed limits of 55-65 MPH and effective speed limits ten miles an hour above that. In the suburbs, crossing a busy road is essentially a death sentence, and coincidentally these are also the areas that are generally the most poorly equipped with crossing facilities.
- megaman22 8y ago
  Well yeah, you don't cross highways. Most streets are not 8-11 lanes wide, particularly in places where anyone would ever be walking along them. Places where pedestrians are common are in-town, low-speed (25-30 mph posted) streets.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    The problem is we design our environments to be fundamentally hostile to walking between suburban neighborhoods, so only those who are desperate enough will walk. Usually this means the suburban poor, because cars can be prohibitively expensive. This usually results in scenarios that beggar disbelief, like this one: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/raquel-nelson-jail-for-jaywalking_b_905925.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/raquel-nelson-ja...
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >As an example, most of America lives in places that have streets that are eight to eleven lanes wide Get out of your SF bubble. Not even the suburban sprawl in the south is built like that. You're exaggerating literally every detail you mentioned by a factor of two or more. Two to four total lanes, with additional turn lanes at intersections is representative of the typical "suburban sprawl". You don't usually have to cross more than two lanes at a time because most places like that have raised medians. For non-major roads two lanes with occasionally a shared left turn lane is very common.
  - MrRadar 8y ago
    While I she agree that 8-11 is an exaggeration, it is easy to get up to 7: 1 right turn lane, 2 though lanes, 2 left turn lanes, and then 2 more through lanes in the opposite direction. Those aren't common in areas with lots of pedestrians, but I do see them all the time in other areas which do have cross walks (with traffic lights, if course) which I have seen used on occasion. Sometimes these even cross highways with 60 MPH (100 KPH) speed limits.
    - bobthepanda 8y ago
      It's also not uncommon for major arterials to have shoulders, which are equivalent in crossing distance and safety to a road lane.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    A couple of places in the South: Atlanta: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Buford+Hwy+NE,+Georgia/@33.9311545,-84.2223624,127a,35y,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88f597a726c3b741:0xef0862cac5d0f807!8m2!3d33.9288969!4d-84.2367742 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Buford+Hwy+NE,+Georgia/@33... Tampa: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tampa,+FL/@27.9494221,-82.3543991,183m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88c2b782b3b9d1e1:0xa75f1389af96b463!8m2!3d27.950575!4d-82.4571776 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tampa,+FL/@27.9494221,-82.... Charlotte: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.2023214,-80.7260181,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.2023214,... Raleigh: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.7310989,-78.6509292,205m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.7310989,... Louisville: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@38.2154225,-85.590797,137m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@38.2154225,... These are rather extreme examples (I said 8-11 based on my experiences in Long Island, NY), but things like this are not uncommon. Most of these medians are basically nonexistent, and even if they did exist, there usually aren't any physical barriers that can stop a car above 50MPH, so they're just marginally safer than standing in the shoulders next to moving traffic. > You don't usually have to cross more than two lanes at a time because most places like that have raised medians. This can actually be a disadvantage, because in my experience, it has been rare where a crossing light on these types of roads gives you enough time to cross the entire road all at once, which can add a few minutes waiting for long, car-focused light cycles even for an able-bodied person. When crossing the street, the total distance and time it takes to go from one side to the other is what matters in terms of pedestrian comfort and convenience.

vlan0 8y ago

Unfortunately, the blind and visually impaired rely heavily on crosswalks to cross the road. Attempting to cross without the safety of a crosswalk will certainly result in death.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

bobthepanda 8y ago

The problem is that mid-block crossing only works if traffic is slow and there are appropriate gaps in traffic. As an example, most of America lives in places that have streets that are eight to eleven lanes wide, with posted speed limits of 55-65 MPH and effective speed limits ten miles an hour above that. In the suburbs, crossing a busy road is essentially a death sentence, and coincidentally these are also the areas that are generally the most poorly equipped with crossing facilities.

megaman22 8y ago
Well yeah, you don't cross highways. Most streets are not 8-11 lanes wide, particularly in places where anyone would ever be walking along them. Places where pedestrians are common are in-town, low-speed (25-30 mph posted) streets.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  The problem is we design our environments to be fundamentally hostile to walking between suburban neighborhoods, so only those who are desperate enough will walk. Usually this means the suburban poor, because cars can be prohibitively expensive. This usually results in scenarios that beggar disbelief, like this one: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/raquel-nelson-jail-for-jaywalking_b_905925.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/raquel-nelson-ja...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>As an example, most of America lives in places that have streets that are eight to eleven lanes wide Get out of your SF bubble. Not even the suburban sprawl in the south is built like that. You're exaggerating literally every detail you mentioned by a factor of two or more. Two to four total lanes, with additional turn lanes at intersections is representative of the typical "suburban sprawl". You don't usually have to cross more than two lanes at a time because most places like that have raised medians. For non-major roads two lanes with occasionally a shared left turn lane is very common.
- MrRadar 8y ago
  While I she agree that 8-11 is an exaggeration, it is easy to get up to 7: 1 right turn lane, 2 though lanes, 2 left turn lanes, and then 2 more through lanes in the opposite direction. Those aren't common in areas with lots of pedestrians, but I do see them all the time in other areas which do have cross walks (with traffic lights, if course) which I have seen used on occasion. Sometimes these even cross highways with 60 MPH (100 KPH) speed limits.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    It's also not uncommon for major arterials to have shoulders, which are equivalent in crossing distance and safety to a road lane.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  A couple of places in the South: Atlanta: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Buford+Hwy+NE,+Georgia/@33.9311545,-84.2223624,127a,35y,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88f597a726c3b741:0xef0862cac5d0f807!8m2!3d33.9288969!4d-84.2367742 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Buford+Hwy+NE,+Georgia/@33... Tampa: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tampa,+FL/@27.9494221,-82.3543991,183m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88c2b782b3b9d1e1:0xa75f1389af96b463!8m2!3d27.950575!4d-82.4571776 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tampa,+FL/@27.9494221,-82.... Charlotte: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.2023214,-80.7260181,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.2023214,... Raleigh: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.7310989,-78.6509292,205m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@35.7310989,... Louisville: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@38.2154225,-85.590797,137m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164!8m2!3d35.2270869!4d-80.8431267 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charlotte,+NC/@38.2154225,... These are rather extreme examples (I said 8-11 based on my experiences in Long Island, NY), but things like this are not uncommon. Most of these medians are basically nonexistent, and even if they did exist, there usually aren't any physical barriers that can stop a car above 50MPH, so they're just marginally safer than standing in the shoulders next to moving traffic. > You don't usually have to cross more than two lanes at a time because most places like that have raised medians. This can actually be a disadvantage, because in my experience, it has been rare where a crossing light on these types of roads gives you enough time to cross the entire road all at once, which can add a few minutes waiting for long, car-focused light cycles even for an able-bodied person. When crossing the street, the total distance and time it takes to go from one side to the other is what matters in terms of pedestrian comfort and convenience.