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There are 3,287 road deaths each and every day. I think this article is reaching when they have to go back as far as 2010 for an example.

pmyteh 8y ago
There aren't many crew on these boats, though. That its a small absolute risk doesn't stop it being relatively dangerous. The maritime union guy suggesting it was as risky than oil rigs was an eye opener for me, as that's one of the most hazardous current jobs.
- kjksf 8y ago
  In this case it's much more likely shoddy journalism than those jobs being dangerous. The author says things that sound factual ("Accidents, injuries and deaths are also commonplace") based on zero evidence ("with union leaders believing working on superyachts to be more dangerous than life on oil rigs"). Note that believing in something doesn't make it so and it's journalist's job to verify data behind believes when they use them to make strong claims like "Accidents, injuries and deaths are also commonplace". Sadly, Guardian failed to do so, opting for lazy quoting that gives air of legitimacy to unsubstantiated "believes". It's not like it would be hard for the author to do the math. According to https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/work... oil rigs are not even in top 25 most dangerous jobs. The article claims there are 37 thousand jobs on yachts. 25th most dangerous job ("heating, air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics and installers") had 8.4 fatalities per 100k workers per year. That's 3.1 fatalities per 37k workers per year. The article found 3 deaths per 18 years, which is 0.17 fatalities per year. That's 16x less deaths than in 25th most dangerous job and 288x less than the most dangerous job. I'm sure they don't know about all the deaths and we can argue about not all jobs on the yacht being equally dangerous but the safety margin in those calculations is pretty big. The data doesn't support the claim that those are particularly dangerous jobs.
  - pmyteh 8y ago
    There have been more than 3 deaths in 18 years: you can look up the accident reports. Just because the Guardian focuses on three cases doesn't mean that those were all there were. The oil rig death statistics are also difficult to interpret. In the UK, for example, there was one offshore oil death last year (per the HSE). Because it's a small industry, there's massive year-to-year variation in per-hundred-thousand rates. The Piper Alpha disaster in the late 80s had 167 deaths, which overwhelms those years where little goes wrong - but only if you look at the statistics over a longer period than 1 year.
  - jonhendry18 8y ago
    The Guardian found three British fatalities. Presumably all the fatalities aren't British, it's just that information about the British fatalities were most accessible to the journalist.
megablast 8y ago
No, there are over a million roads deaths every single year, with a lot more people seriously injured.
throwaway010718 8y ago
After reading, it does seem like a megayacht is an overall safe place to work. In contrast as a teenager I worked the register at a convenience store in NYC for less than minimum wage selling cigarettes and lottery tickets to the poorest people in the city. At the time "convenience store clerk" was the most deadly job in the US and I really thought I wouldn't live to be an adult. There was also an 11 year old boy who was employed at that store for 25% of minimum wage (not a typo). The boy worked from 5AM to 7PM on Saturdays and was kept in the basement where he used a razor blade to prep magazines and newspapers that didn't sell. If you had given any of us a chance to work on a yacht, cross the Atlantic, and leave with a few $Ks in savings, we would have taken it even if the survival rate was 50%. And especially if people would still be writing about our deaths years later. Even now, I doubt the death of a convenience store clerk would make the local news.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Not to minimize your experience, but we have no idea what the actual safety statistics are, because they don’t exist. When your employer is a holding company in Cayman Islands, operating a ship flying a flag of convenience from some random country, located in yet another random country, expectations are limited... who would an accident be reported to?
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    I agree that actual safety statistics probably do not exist. But why would you assume they are especially unfavorable? People crew all kinds of boats, big and small. Many do it for fun, on their own boats, in places where law enforcement is barely present. "People sometimes get hurt on boats", sure. This fact doesn't stir much outrage.

pmyteh 8y ago

There aren't many crew on these boats, though. That its a small absolute risk doesn't stop it being relatively dangerous. The maritime union guy suggesting it was as risky than oil rigs was an eye opener for me, as that's one of the most hazardous current jobs.

kjksf 8y ago
In this case it's much more likely shoddy journalism than those jobs being dangerous. The author says things that sound factual ("Accidents, injuries and deaths are also commonplace") based on zero evidence ("with union leaders believing working on superyachts to be more dangerous than life on oil rigs"). Note that believing in something doesn't make it so and it's journalist's job to verify data behind believes when they use them to make strong claims like "Accidents, injuries and deaths are also commonplace". Sadly, Guardian failed to do so, opting for lazy quoting that gives air of legitimacy to unsubstantiated "believes". It's not like it would be hard for the author to do the math. According to https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/work... oil rigs are not even in top 25 most dangerous jobs. The article claims there are 37 thousand jobs on yachts. 25th most dangerous job ("heating, air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics and installers") had 8.4 fatalities per 100k workers per year. That's 3.1 fatalities per 37k workers per year. The article found 3 deaths per 18 years, which is 0.17 fatalities per year. That's 16x less deaths than in 25th most dangerous job and 288x less than the most dangerous job. I'm sure they don't know about all the deaths and we can argue about not all jobs on the yacht being equally dangerous but the safety margin in those calculations is pretty big. The data doesn't support the claim that those are particularly dangerous jobs.
- pmyteh 8y ago
  There have been more than 3 deaths in 18 years: you can look up the accident reports. Just because the Guardian focuses on three cases doesn't mean that those were all there were. The oil rig death statistics are also difficult to interpret. In the UK, for example, there was one offshore oil death last year (per the HSE). Because it's a small industry, there's massive year-to-year variation in per-hundred-thousand rates. The Piper Alpha disaster in the late 80s had 167 deaths, which overwhelms those years where little goes wrong - but only if you look at the statistics over a longer period than 1 year.
- jonhendry18 8y ago
  The Guardian found three British fatalities. Presumably all the fatalities aren't British, it's just that information about the British fatalities were most accessible to the journalist.

megablast 8y ago

No, there are over a million roads deaths every single year, with a lot more people seriously injured.

throwaway010718 8y ago

After reading, it does seem like a megayacht is an overall safe place to work. In contrast as a teenager I worked the register at a convenience store in NYC for less than minimum wage selling cigarettes and lottery tickets to the poorest people in the city. At the time "convenience store clerk" was the most deadly job in the US and I really thought I wouldn't live to be an adult. There was also an 11 year old boy who was employed at that store for 25% of minimum wage (not a typo). The boy worked from 5AM to 7PM on Saturdays and was kept in the basement where he used a razor blade to prep magazines and newspapers that didn't sell. If you had given any of us a chance to work on a yacht, cross the Atlantic, and leave with a few $Ks in savings, we would have taken it even if the survival rate was 50%. And especially if people would still be writing about our deaths years later. Even now, I doubt the death of a convenience store clerk would make the local news.

Spooky23 8y ago
Not to minimize your experience, but we have no idea what the actual safety statistics are, because they don’t exist. When your employer is a holding company in Cayman Islands, operating a ship flying a flag of convenience from some random country, located in yet another random country, expectations are limited... who would an accident be reported to?
- stickfigure 8y ago
  I agree that actual safety statistics probably do not exist. But why would you assume they are especially unfavorable? People crew all kinds of boats, big and small. Many do it for fun, on their own boats, in places where law enforcement is barely present. "People sometimes get hurt on boats", sure. This fact doesn't stir much outrage.