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> the IP adress in the log files alone is considered potential personal data Stop logging the IP address then. Hopefully default settings in web servers will c
by beojan 8y ago
> the IP adress in the log files alone is considered potential personal data
Stop logging the IP address then. Hopefully default settings in web servers will change.
> What kind of online business can reasonably be done without using an email adress, if only for login/resetting password if lost?
That means you have a legitimate interest, so long as you don't send marketing emails to those addresses, or sell them, and so long as you delete them if someone deletes their account.
> How does for example a small yoga studio’s email list fit in your examples?
If someone signs up to your email list, they've consented to receiving emails. Just don't sell the list, and remove people if they unsubscribe.
The only real complication (if you're in the UK, I don't know about other countries) is that there is a fee to register as a data controller. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-fee/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-fee/
- hennsen 8y agoIp adresses are needed for security anslysis in case of attacks, for example. the thing is not about doing what you propose but that however you‘re doing it, you have a lot of bureaucracy and legal insecurity right now. The examples of wrongdoing you give should be leading to hard measures. But those with good intentions shouldn’t have high bureaucracy costs. To be clear: i don’t say these laws shouldn’t exist. They just should have been targeted at the actual wrongdoers and put smallest possible burden on all with no bad intentions.
- remus 8y ago> Ip adresses are needed for security anslysis in case of attacks, for example. Then you have a legitimate need for the data, so store it for a reasonable length of time and then delete it.
- ryanlol 8y ago>Ip adresses are needed for security anslysis in case of attacks, for example People repeat this a lot, but it sounds like complete nonsense. Why does your business need to perform “security anslysis in case of attacks”? Do you get paid to do that? Why would you need IP addresses for that?
- jexah 8y agoOne obvious case is DoS attacks. Rudimentary attacks can be mitigated by blocking IP addresses of the attacker. Another example is logging requests to secure sections of the site and/or server and perform IP blocks on fishy activity.
- beojan 8y agoYou can do that with a hash of the IP.
- ryanlol 8y agoHow would this work? You can't just sha256 IPs as that'd be trivial to reverse, no different from storing the plaintext. I don't see why the IPs would ever have to hit the disk for this purpose, just keep them cached in RAM for a few minutes.
- beojan 8y agoSalt the hashes, perhaps use PBKDF2. The problem is solved for passwords, just treat IPs like low entropy passwords.
- blibble 8y agothere's only 4 billion possible IPs, you can reverse the entire search space in a few hours the only way round this is to make the webserver spend a non-trivial amount of time running some derivation function on the IP for each and every request (remember you can't cache the result if the entire point is not to store the IP)
- hennsen 8y agoAnd all that stuff is super complex... for a number which is not person bound and personally identifying in the furst place. Only with a lot more effort. So my critique is, the lawmakers should have made actions to use ip‘s to identify persons illegal, but not storing ips themselves.
- ahallock 8y ago> Stop logging the IP address then. Hopefully default settings in web servers will change. But in legal matters, you need to identify people and have some kind of audit trail, especially if they tried to breach your system. That makes no sense.
- beojan 8y agoDepends what's on the site. If it's just a static site, there isn't a lot of point trying to investigate a breach, just fix the changes and move on.
- ryanlol 8y agoWhy stop at IP addresses then? If IP addresses in logs are necessary for audit trails, why aren’t fingeprints?
- hennsen 8y agoYou put it to a total overexaggerated extreme here. That doesn’t help. IP adresses are not 1:1 assigned to a person for a whole lifetime, fingerprints are. Only with a lot additional effort and connection to other databases, IP adresses can actually be connected with a person, but only for an uncertain period of time, finding out this timespan, and ensuring it’s really only exactly this one person requires even more effort. So a properly crafted law would have made all these efforts illegal, and put high fines on them, but not the decades old practice of storing ip adresses in logfiles.
- ryanlol 8y agoWhy do you need to store IP addresses in log files? I understand audit logging for authenticated users, but that's hardly a general case.
- hennsen 8y agoWhy are ip adresses even considered personal data? They aren’t for most people and situations, unless a lot if other activities are done. All of which would be already illegal without consent by the law. The ip adress i write this from changes every day, and nobody can know if i share it with someone or not. I want to be protected from marketing firms that sell my email adress , and everyone who uses it to send me mails for whatever product to buy judt because i entered it for some totally different reason. Those shall be fined with 5 figure amounts. I don’t see how my(and my housemates/office colleagues etc) ip in the logfiles of the webserver which a small business rented for 3€ to upload 3 html filed can be abused (without storing my email and name without consent which is actual personal data and therefore illegal) and i dont want my hairdresser, car mechanic etc be in need to consult a lawyer to understand all that stuff and have a day worth of bureaucracy and adfing a “we have your current ip in the logs” note just because they want me to be able to google their street adresses. The law is simply not well crafted for no use if the latter is the case.