6 ms·

The Wrong Stuff: NASA Astronaut on Making and Fixing Mistakes

83 points by rfreytag 16y ago

wazoox 16y ago
I've read an article on the very same subject a couple of years ago. It started with the maiden flight (and crash) of the B-17, and how it then became the first plane with a check-list. What was it? Wired? The Atlantic?
- rfreytag 16y ago
  BusinessWeek: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_08/b4167078066671.htm http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_08/b41670780... More about the B-17 history: How the Pilot's Checklist Came About: http://www.atchistory.org/History/checklst.htm http://www.atchistory.org/History/checklst.htm
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - wazoox 16y ago
    This was definitely about this book and this doctor, but I'm pretty sure it was a much longer and detailed article, the kind you find in the New-Yorker, and get posted to HN.
projectileboy 16y ago
This dovetails nicely with Atul Gawande's book "The Checklist Manifesto". Certainly we can't completely automate medical diagnosis and treatment, but we could go a lot further than we have thus far.
- RK 16y ago
  I thought one of the best quotes from the interview was Telling people to be careful is not effective. Humans are not reliable that way. ... You need a solution that's not about making people perfect.
The_Fox 16y ago
The title must be an acknowledgement of the oft-mentioned "They Write the Right Stuff": http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  Actually, they both reference the 1979 Tom Wolfe book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29
barrkel 16y ago
I never knew the Challenger disaster crew survived the explosion. It's a pretty damning indictment of institutional politics that steps couldn't be taken for similar situations to be non-fatal.
- brudgers 16y ago
  Saftey was improved after the disaster. Failure rate went from 4% to 1.8% according to the interview. Probably due at least in part to treating the explosion as something other than a "blameworthy act."
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    I wonder, though, if they've taken steps to make a launch failure survivable. If the Challenger situation repeated itself, what would be the odds of the astronauts living through it?
    - rtyuioikujhy 16y ago
      Zero. Remember there is no need to make an accident survivable because an accident can't happen "Failure is not an option" and lots of other macho chest beating. If the Titanic had been built by Nasa it would have had no lifeboats, a crew of 10,000 safety inspectors but would still have hit the iceberg.
    - brudgers 16y ago
      After the Challenger accident, a jettisonable hatch, personal oxygen systems, parachutes, rafts, and pressure suits were added to ascent and entry operations of the space shuttle. http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf
      - rtyuioikujhy 16y ago
        This was the system where after the craft explodes and is falling to earth at mach2 - you jettison a hatch, extend a boom, put on safety harness, clip the harness to the boom and slide out to then end (to clear the wings and tail) jump off and open your parachute? No mention of what happens if something goes wrong while you are still attached to 2Million lbs of liquid hydrogen/oxygen. I remember the laughter at the time ....
v21 16y ago
In related space matters: the ISS has a webcam! Last week I saw a hurricane from space. Yesterday, they were struggling to get Win2000 to connect to a LAN. http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  Wait, what is that a webcam of? I see a computer monitor, nothing spacey at all, and hearing Russian radio chatter.
  - v21 16y ago
    Ah, yeah, right now it's switched to a map showing the position. Sadface. But the last few days it's been showing an interior view, and before that mainly exterior shots. You get a mission overlay a fair bit, too, which is a shame - I assume this is when video signal is lost. The Russian radio chatter is ground talking to astronauts in Russian. There's also English radio chatter, too.
  - zacharycohn 16y ago
    There are spacey things going on right now! Someone is floating through the air!!
- jeebusroxors 16y ago
  They used to have SSTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSTV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSTV) as well. I never successfully captured one but I have from other SSTV stations. It's a very cool feeling to receive pictures from someone hundreds of miles away over "nothing" (radio). I can only imagine the feeling receiving photos directly from the ISS.
CWuestefeld 16y ago
This is all applicable to our industry as well. I've tried to foster a culture on my team, where nobody's in trouble when we find a bug. The only think I want to hear about is (a) how do we fix it, and (b) how do we prevent it next time. The only thing that's going to be trouble is trying to hide a bug.

83 points by rfreytag 16y ago

I've read an article on the very same subject a couple of years ago. It started with the maiden flight (and crash) of the B-17, and how it then became the first plane with a check-list. What was it? Wired? The Atlantic?

rfreytag 16y ago
BusinessWeek: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_08/b4167078066671.htm http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_08/b41670780... More about the B-17 history: How the Pilot's Checklist Came About: http://www.atchistory.org/History/checklst.htm http://www.atchistory.org/History/checklst.htm
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- wazoox 16y ago
  This was definitely about this book and this doctor, but I'm pretty sure it was a much longer and detailed article, the kind you find in the New-Yorker, and get posted to HN.

projectileboy 16y ago

This dovetails nicely with Atul Gawande's book "The Checklist Manifesto". Certainly we can't completely automate medical diagnosis and treatment, but we could go a lot further than we have thus far.

RK 16y ago
I thought one of the best quotes from the interview was Telling people to be careful is not effective. Humans are not reliable that way. ... You need a solution that's not about making people perfect.

The_Fox 16y ago

The title must be an acknowledgement of the oft-mentioned "They Write the Right Stuff": http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html

RyanMcGreal 16y ago
Actually, they both reference the 1979 Tom Wolfe book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29

barrkel 16y ago

I never knew the Challenger disaster crew survived the explosion. It's a pretty damning indictment of institutional politics that steps couldn't be taken for similar situations to be non-fatal.

brudgers 16y ago
Saftey was improved after the disaster. Failure rate went from 4% to 1.8% according to the interview. Probably due at least in part to treating the explosion as something other than a "blameworthy act."
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  I wonder, though, if they've taken steps to make a launch failure survivable. If the Challenger situation repeated itself, what would be the odds of the astronauts living through it?
  - rtyuioikujhy 16y ago
    Zero. Remember there is no need to make an accident survivable because an accident can't happen "Failure is not an option" and lots of other macho chest beating. If the Titanic had been built by Nasa it would have had no lifeboats, a crew of 10,000 safety inspectors but would still have hit the iceberg.
  - brudgers 16y ago
    After the Challenger accident, a jettisonable hatch, personal oxygen systems, parachutes, rafts, and pressure suits were added to ascent and entry operations of the space shuttle. http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf
    - rtyuioikujhy 16y ago
      This was the system where after the craft explodes and is falling to earth at mach2 - you jettison a hatch, extend a boom, put on safety harness, clip the harness to the boom and slide out to then end (to clear the wings and tail) jump off and open your parachute? No mention of what happens if something goes wrong while you are still attached to 2Million lbs of liquid hydrogen/oxygen. I remember the laughter at the time ....

v21 16y ago

In related space matters: the ISS has a webcam! Last week I saw a hurricane from space. Yesterday, they were struggling to get Win2000 to connect to a LAN. http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx

pavel_lishin 16y ago
Wait, what is that a webcam of? I see a computer monitor, nothing spacey at all, and hearing Russian radio chatter.
- v21 16y ago
  Ah, yeah, right now it's switched to a map showing the position. Sadface. But the last few days it's been showing an interior view, and before that mainly exterior shots. You get a mission overlay a fair bit, too, which is a shame - I assume this is when video signal is lost. The Russian radio chatter is ground talking to astronauts in Russian. There's also English radio chatter, too.
- zacharycohn 16y ago
  There are spacey things going on right now! Someone is floating through the air!!
jeebusroxors 16y ago
They used to have SSTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSTV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSTV) as well. I never successfully captured one but I have from other SSTV stations. It's a very cool feeling to receive pictures from someone hundreds of miles away over "nothing" (radio). I can only imagine the feeling receiving photos directly from the ISS.

CWuestefeld 16y ago

This is all applicable to our industry as well. I've tried to foster a culture on my team, where nobody's in trouble when we find a bug. The only think I want to hear about is (a) how do we fix it, and (b) how do we prevent it next time. The only thing that's going to be trouble is trying to hide a bug.