4 ms·

That's cherry-picking a favorable example for the car. It's always better to take your car when you fill it up with people, compared to other modes that charge

That's cherry-picking a favorable example for the car. It's always better to take your car when you fill it up with people, compared to other modes that charge per person. It's true locally - always cheaper to drive from Oakland to San Francisco vs. four round-trip BART tickets - and it's true regionally - cheaper to drive the whole family than to fly, if you don't value your time. Of course both of those assume that you can afford the car and that the car you can afford will survive the trip. Anyway, your last sentence is wrong. Much of the money under the HSR project is going to local transportation projects. So far they have spent or committed seven billion dollars for Caltrain, BART, Muni, Sacramento RT, Capitol Corridor, ACE, LA Metro, Metrolink, San Diego Blue Line, and Coaster, among others.

rayiner 8y ago
It's a highly relevant example. What are the reasons a lower-income person might travel from LA to SF? Traveling to visit family is probably the primary reason. You can see this play out with the Acela on the east coast. It's almost all business travelers or nicely dressed professional looking people. People who can't afford $100+ per ticket take the bus ($35). Likewise, even lower income people traveling alone aren't going to spend $86 for a ticket on HSR (if it's not more like $100+ by the time it's finally open). They'll pay $35 for a Bolt bus.
- ebikelaw 8y ago
  Speaking of disconnected from reality, you seem to be claiming that poor people travel, which they don't. In yet another example of American inequality, the bottom income quartile of families are quite stationary; they can neither afford to move about nor do they have "days off" as such because an American is not legally entitled to any. The supermajority of American families cannot even afford an unexpected $500 expense; they sure as hell aren't going to blow hundreds to drive to LA.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    'rayiner seems to have argued you in a circle here. He is the one claiming the poor aren't going to ride this train; you hardly contradict him when you argue they aren't going to use cheaper transportation either.
    - ebikelaw 8y ago
      Not at all. He hasn't addressed my point which is that for individuals travelling alone the train will be dramatically cheaper than driving over long distances.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - tptacek 8y ago
        You haven't come close to establishing that either. Bus fare from SF to LA is less than half that train ticket price.

rayiner 8y ago

It's a highly relevant example. What are the reasons a lower-income person might travel from LA to SF? Traveling to visit family is probably the primary reason. You can see this play out with the Acela on the east coast. It's almost all business travelers or nicely dressed professional looking people. People who can't afford $100+ per ticket take the bus ($35). Likewise, even lower income people traveling alone aren't going to spend $86 for a ticket on HSR (if it's not more like $100+ by the time it's finally open). They'll pay $35 for a Bolt bus.

ebikelaw 8y ago
Speaking of disconnected from reality, you seem to be claiming that poor people travel, which they don't. In yet another example of American inequality, the bottom income quartile of families are quite stationary; they can neither afford to move about nor do they have "days off" as such because an American is not legally entitled to any. The supermajority of American families cannot even afford an unexpected $500 expense; they sure as hell aren't going to blow hundreds to drive to LA.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  'rayiner seems to have argued you in a circle here. He is the one claiming the poor aren't going to ride this train; you hardly contradict him when you argue they aren't going to use cheaper transportation either.
  - ebikelaw 8y ago
    Not at all. He hasn't addressed my point which is that for individuals travelling alone the train will be dramatically cheaper than driving over long distances.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tptacek 8y ago
      You haven't come close to establishing that either. Bus fare from SF to LA is less than half that train ticket price.