3 ms·

Yeah, the Sunbelt migration could be sustainable if people were moving there to live in the heat and xeriscape their yards, but apparently people want to move t

by gascan 8y ago

Yeah, the Sunbelt migration could be sustainable if people were moving there to live in the heat and xeriscape their yards, but apparently people want to move to Phoenix and live at 72 degrees with lush green everywhere. Aside from the limited water, there's the total dependence on air conditioning running headlong into the urban heat island and a warming climate.

toasterlovin 8y ago
I get that air conditioning is expensive in a place like Phoenix, but isn't heating similarly expensive in the Great Lakes and northeast?
- eropple 8y ago
  The answer, as with many things, is "it depends." All other things being equal, air conditioning is a little cooler on a degree-by-degree basis than some forms of heating...but it never is that simple. Heat pumps have a higher cost to entry but lower operating costs, air conditioners have a lower cost of entry but nontrivially higher operating costs. A common pattern is to use heat pumps, ducted or no, for high-efficiency cooling and heating, with a backup solution like a gas furnace for heating below the point where a heat pump can function.
- Xylakant 8y ago
  One of the problems of aircon is that it deposits the heat into the surrounding air, adding more heat in the process and increasing the temperature gradient. Denser cities also heat up much faster since they restrict air flow and replace for example trees or other areas that can buffer or reduce heat. So cooling a city gets harder as it grows denser. If you want to warm up your city, all of this is in your favor.
pathseeker 8y ago
>Aside from the limited water, there's the total dependence on air conditioning running headlong into the urban heat island and a warming climate. And everyone in the north has a total dependence on heat. Solar panels are viable in the desert so it's easy to have self-sustaining houses when it comes to A/C.
- gascan 8y ago
  The more A/C in use, the hotter the city gets, exacerbating the urban heat island. And even if Arizona used exclusively solar (which it doesn't), the climate is still on a warming pattern. Also, energy trapped by black solar panels & released by A/C is a net increase in heat into the city, compared to reflecting that energy off a high albedo surface, such as a metal or white roof, or the unmolested desert itself.
fusiongyro 8y ago
In the southwest we make fairly heavy use of swamp coolers (evaporative cooling) which lets you pick your poison. They work pretty well in the more arid areas, but can only drop the temperature about 20-25 degrees, so on the hottest days, you crave real A/C. But where I live (Socorro, from the article), that winds up being only a few weeks a year thanks to the altitude, and many of us just suffer through it. I just put in A/C at the new house though... My recollection is that the humidity in Phoenix actually gets higher than you'd expect due to swamp cooling, lower altitude, less temperature swing day-to-night, and a huge amount of swimming pools, but I have no source for that, it might be bullshit.

by gascan 8y ago

toasterlovin 8y ago

I get that air conditioning is expensive in a place like Phoenix, but isn't heating similarly expensive in the Great Lakes and northeast?

eropple 8y ago
The answer, as with many things, is "it depends." All other things being equal, air conditioning is a little cooler on a degree-by-degree basis than some forms of heating...but it never is that simple. Heat pumps have a higher cost to entry but lower operating costs, air conditioners have a lower cost of entry but nontrivially higher operating costs. A common pattern is to use heat pumps, ducted or no, for high-efficiency cooling and heating, with a backup solution like a gas furnace for heating below the point where a heat pump can function.
Xylakant 8y ago
One of the problems of aircon is that it deposits the heat into the surrounding air, adding more heat in the process and increasing the temperature gradient. Denser cities also heat up much faster since they restrict air flow and replace for example trees or other areas that can buffer or reduce heat. So cooling a city gets harder as it grows denser. If you want to warm up your city, all of this is in your favor.

pathseeker 8y ago

>Aside from the limited water, there's the total dependence on air conditioning running headlong into the urban heat island and a warming climate. And everyone in the north has a total dependence on heat. Solar panels are viable in the desert so it's easy to have self-sustaining houses when it comes to A/C.

gascan 8y ago
The more A/C in use, the hotter the city gets, exacerbating the urban heat island. And even if Arizona used exclusively solar (which it doesn't), the climate is still on a warming pattern. Also, energy trapped by black solar panels & released by A/C is a net increase in heat into the city, compared to reflecting that energy off a high albedo surface, such as a metal or white roof, or the unmolested desert itself.

fusiongyro 8y ago

In the southwest we make fairly heavy use of swamp coolers (evaporative cooling) which lets you pick your poison. They work pretty well in the more arid areas, but can only drop the temperature about 20-25 degrees, so on the hottest days, you crave real A/C. But where I live (Socorro, from the article), that winds up being only a few weeks a year thanks to the altitude, and many of us just suffer through it. I just put in A/C at the new house though... My recollection is that the humidity in Phoenix actually gets higher than you'd expect due to swamp cooling, lower altitude, less temperature swing day-to-night, and a huge amount of swimming pools, but I have no source for that, it might be bullshit.