7 ms·

Classic Fonts That Will Last a Whole Design Career

128 points by dwwoelfel 16y ago

wccrawford 16y ago
I've been trying to get into design more, but I apparently don't have any innate talent and I'm going to have to actually work hard at it. Anyone got any tips/articles/etc on how to pick a typeface? Yeah, that's a pretty broad question... I've tried going by my feelings, and that only goes so far with no innate ability. I can recognize some as looking 'classy' or 'fun', but anything more fine-tuned than that eludes me so far.
- earnubs 16y ago
  "... I apparently don't have any innate talent and I'm going to have to actually work hard at it." Unfortunately even with innate talent you will still have to work hard at it. There are many things to consider, from fitting in with the style and purpose of the project (Mrs Eaves is pretty but would you use Mrs Eaves on a project about the Titanic?) to practical issues like having the right weights for body type.
  - nsfmc 16y ago
    "even with innate talent you will still have to work hard at it." Word. I responded to an earlier post that this sort of thing is a learned skill. About a year or two ago, i started a font blog[1] so that i could learn about typefaces and also so that i could become better at making type specimens. It worked, at least until i got busy with school, but it actually made me understand type and it also had the effect of making me use typeface outside of my comfort zone. I welcome submissions, so let me know if you want to take a stab at writing up a typeface / specimen. Just as with programming or, for that matter, anything, practice in seeing[2] and using type is really the winning ticket. The more you do it, the better you get. I know, lame, right? But how do you get better? You research, you try, you fail, you get feedback, and you get better. [1] http://fontasm.tumblr.com http://fontasm.tumblr.com [2] Seeing Is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees (978-0520049208)
    - thristian 16y ago
      > http://fontasm.tumblr.com http://fontasm.tumblr.com Subscribed.
- m912 16y ago
  Tips on how to pick a typeface? Research further into the history of typography and current usage. Generally there are 'safe' options for instance, in my opinion, you can rarely go wrong with Helvetica. It is probably more about the actual setting of the type - sizes, line spacing, layout and so on. I would suggest focusing on and practicing with that more than focusing on actual typefaces. Read more design-y blogs/magazines such as Brand New and Creative Review than just web orientated blogs such as the one linked here.
mhd 16y ago
I generally agree a lot with professional designers about typography (well, apart from the rabid Helvetica lovers among them), but sometimes I wonder whether compromising for the tastes of the general public wouldn't be worth it in monetary terms. The proliferation of Comic Sans and Papyrus doesn't come out of nowhere, and if you walk around in a random city in this world (with Latin signage), you're bound to see lots of those signs. I have a friend who works in a print shop, and apparently a lot of customers prefer to have that. So depending on your desired projected image, you might want to go with the typographically "bad" choice, for psychological reasons. I wonder whether real designers regard this with the same distaste as I would about copy & paste programming…
- ugh 16y ago
  I don’t think Comic Sans and Papyrus are popular because people prefer them to choices a designer would make. They are popular because they are readily available. Normal people pick a font by looking at the font dropdown in Word. You actually have to pay a lot of money for most fonts on the submission’s list. A lot of good could be done for this world by operating systems with better default fonts.
  - mhd 16y ago
    Windows and Mac do have better fonts available, so that can't be the sole reason. What both fonts have in common, is that they don't look professional. So they are intended to convey a different mood by their user – which gets somewhat ironic when you consider the amount of passive-agressive notes written in Comic Sans. Just like deliberate spelling mistakes (flickr, tumblr etc.) are used to convey a certain non-chalance, using "bad" fonts might be used as a tool. It's probably not good for long-standing branding, but for cheap one-off mass market communication, it might fly. Personally, I probably wouldn't, but then again, I'm one of those who considers sans-serif fonts necessary evils in this low-DPI world, not much more.
    - ugh 16y ago
      There aren’t really any alternatives to Comic Sans or Papyrus on Windows. Everything else looks awful when printed (Verdana) or is, if somewhat more – ehem – professional than Comic Sans, not exactly very emotional (Times New Roman).
WilliamLP 16y ago
I wonder if I'm the only one here who is completely font-blind? I never notice what font something is unless someone points it out, let alone being able to pick out 25 specific ones. I guess that makes me a poor candidate for being a designer, doesn't it!
- nsfmc 16y ago
  no, it's a learned skill. Mostly you get better at it by a) using them and b) reading about them. It took me about two years of minor curiosity and looking up at things before i definitively spotted my first random non-system font. The key, and this is important, fonts have historical baggage and they also are designed by relatively few people. After doing this, you start to see designer-traits and also historical influences. The hardest thing to see is white-space, which is another "i know kung fu" moment.
- Chris_Newton 16y ago
  Alas, typography is cursed by two common afflications in the design community: 1. Good typography does not draw attention to itself. Most people will only notice your typographical work when you get it wrong. When you get it right, the reader takes in the information and registers the mood without ever noticing the medium. 2. There are snobs, who will artificially exaggerate the differences between fonts to try to appear more knowledgeable. There are differences between fonts and they really can create very different results. However, sometimes there are two well-designed fonts that happen to be very similar, and you really could use either with good, professional-looking results. Arguing about which of these fonts is "better" invariably generates more heat than light. In other words, if you're not a trained designer, you're supposed to be font-blind. And if you are a trained designer, your reader should be font-blind. If they are noticing the details of which font you use, you're probably not doing a very good job.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- m912 16y ago
  I always compare this to football (or 'soccer') fans who always seem to know an impossibly large amount on the subject compared to me. I guess it's just what you're in to — I suppose the same goes for music and movies.
tptacek 16y ago
What a weak post. I'm going to spend a career alternating between Helvetica and Akzidenz? Clarendon (really?) and Rockwell? Why? Why would a designer ever use "Avant Garde"? What's the last major thing to ever use Optima? Some of these faces seem terribly out of fashion (Optima, Rotis, Clarendon). Some of them seem useful only if you're going to set printed books (Bembo, Garamond). Some of them are so closely related (Akzidenz and Helvetica, Univers Avenir and Frutiger) that it's hard to see why all of them are here. But what really bugs me about this post is that it contains no content. Choose whatever faces you want; you're supposedly the expert, blog writer! Just tell us something about them when you do.
- bonzoesc 16y ago
  > What's the last major thing to ever use Optima? > Some of these faces seem terribly out of fashion (Optima, Rotis). The 2008 McCain/Palin campaign used Optima.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    Seriously, not snarkily: case in point. Their visual identity was ridiculed during the campaign (Obama's campaign famously used HF+J Gotham, which has since become a design cliche because of overuse by designers).
  - mdg 16y ago
    How can you tell? Are you able to tell what a typeface is just by looking at it? What characteristics help you decide ? I have been trying to learn about typography, passively, for the past couple months. Anything sans serif looks like Helvetica to me.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      Optima is a very famous typeface. It's probably the most famous humanist sans --- these are faces that try to capture the quirks of handwriting or calligraphy. The uppercase letters mimic carved-in-stone Roman letters. Because it has serif-y features (flared terminals in particular) it's notoriously hard to harmonize with other faces. Every designer in the world can spot it on sight. In general, look at the contrast in weights (where do the lines get thinner and thicker) and the axis of those contrasts (is the "hand" drawing the letter positioned at an angle?). In a Sans, you can also eyeball how "geometric" the letters are; is the "o" a perfect circle, for instance? Even if you're not a designer (I'm definitely not), it's worth it to buy a copy of Bringhurst's _Elements of Typography_; it's a beautifully written and designed little book.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ExpertIdiot 16y ago
There is no justification for any of these fonts. He could've simply spun the wheel'o fonts and picked 25 of these. Most fonts have a real designer behind them that designed the font for a reason. The font depicts a mood and should be used for specific situations. This just makes it seem like you should pick any font of your choosing and run wild with it. Since there are 25 I surely can't run out right?
aw3c2 16y ago
Content-void topX list with affliate links.
hsmyers 16y ago
The complete lack of any mention of printer's ornaments (pi fonts) or specialty fonts (chess anyone?) suggests that 'Career' doesn't even begin to cover edge cases. Which of course leaves the land of hum-drum in the middle--- no thanks!
- someone_here 16y ago
  No need for specialty fonts for chess since all chess pieces are in Unicode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_symbols_in_Unicode http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_symbols_in_Unicode
  - wmf 16y ago
    I'm going to take a wild guess that not all fonts include all Unicode characters.
joshstaiger 16y ago
I recommend Bringhurst's Elements of Typographical Style as a crash course in typography. http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Bringhurst/dp/0881791326 http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Brin... It contains wonderful guidelines for typesetting and also gives a sense of history and culture behind common fonts. Also useful is this site that outlines how to apply Bringhurst's principles to the web: http://webtypography.net/ http://webtypography.net/
spacecadet 16y ago
As a designer I'm tired of seeing this post(10th time now?) Which is always directly "borrowed" from this book... http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Typefaces-Lifetime-Joshua-Berger/dp/1592532780 http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Typefaces-Lifetime-Joshua-Be... Which I have owned for, god I dont even remember how long. Dont defend these typefaces to deeply. They come with almost every computer today, so they are accessible to almost everyone (maybe mircosoft decided to catch up?). Which is why they are good for a lifetime. Right now there are many contemporary type foundries putting out some really beautiful typefaces. Like these guys. http://processtypefoundry.com/ http://processtypefoundry.com/ Thats all. peace.
- slashclee 16y ago
  I really love Mark Simonson's fonts. Anonymous Pro is a great fixed-width font, and I really like Proxima Nova and Mostra Nuova. I'd much rather give him my money than Adobe.
sahillavingia 16y ago
I could use one font in my whole design career, though it would be an awefully short one if I did!
teye 16y ago
How could you make a list like that and omit HFJ's Gotham in favor of FF Dax or Myriad? Many of these are roughly equivalent. Terrible list. A few seconds of searching turns up an infinitely more interesting piece from Smashing Magazine: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/03/20/60-brilliant-typefaces-for-corporate-design/ http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/03/20/60-brilliant-type...
- gabrielroth 16y ago
  Gotham has been used so much in the past couple years that I'd be very wary of using it for anything. In ten years it'll immediately scream '2009'.
  - teye 16y ago
    It very well may. I point it out because it seems to be becoming a default, just as Helvetica has.
kadavy 16y ago
Remember, most of these won't look so good as body copy on the web: http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/design-for-hackers-why-you-dont-use-garamond-on-the-web/ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/design-for-hackers-why-you-...
garrickvanburen 16y ago
These are all fine faces with (mostly) very rigid licenses around them. If your design career was online - the chances of you able to easily use any of them in a meaningful way is nil. There are some great faces released under the OFL, GPL, and CC licenses.

128 points by dwwoelfel 16y ago

I've been trying to get into design more, but I apparently don't have any innate talent and I'm going to have to actually work hard at it. Anyone got any tips/articles/etc on how to pick a typeface? Yeah, that's a pretty broad question... I've tried going by my feelings, and that only goes so far with no innate ability. I can recognize some as looking 'classy' or 'fun', but anything more fine-tuned than that eludes me so far.

earnubs 16y ago
"... I apparently don't have any innate talent and I'm going to have to actually work hard at it." Unfortunately even with innate talent you will still have to work hard at it. There are many things to consider, from fitting in with the style and purpose of the project (Mrs Eaves is pretty but would you use Mrs Eaves on a project about the Titanic?) to practical issues like having the right weights for body type.
- nsfmc 16y ago
  "even with innate talent you will still have to work hard at it." Word. I responded to an earlier post that this sort of thing is a learned skill. About a year or two ago, i started a font blog[1] so that i could learn about typefaces and also so that i could become better at making type specimens. It worked, at least until i got busy with school, but it actually made me understand type and it also had the effect of making me use typeface outside of my comfort zone. I welcome submissions, so let me know if you want to take a stab at writing up a typeface / specimen. Just as with programming or, for that matter, anything, practice in seeing[2] and using type is really the winning ticket. The more you do it, the better you get. I know, lame, right? But how do you get better? You research, you try, you fail, you get feedback, and you get better. [1] http://fontasm.tumblr.com http://fontasm.tumblr.com [2] Seeing Is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees (978-0520049208)
  - thristian 16y ago
    > http://fontasm.tumblr.com http://fontasm.tumblr.com Subscribed.
m912 16y ago
Tips on how to pick a typeface? Research further into the history of typography and current usage. Generally there are 'safe' options for instance, in my opinion, you can rarely go wrong with Helvetica. It is probably more about the actual setting of the type - sizes, line spacing, layout and so on. I would suggest focusing on and practicing with that more than focusing on actual typefaces. Read more design-y blogs/magazines such as Brand New and Creative Review than just web orientated blogs such as the one linked here.

mhd 16y ago

I generally agree a lot with professional designers about typography (well, apart from the rabid Helvetica lovers among them), but sometimes I wonder whether compromising for the tastes of the general public wouldn't be worth it in monetary terms. The proliferation of Comic Sans and Papyrus doesn't come out of nowhere, and if you walk around in a random city in this world (with Latin signage), you're bound to see lots of those signs. I have a friend who works in a print shop, and apparently a lot of customers prefer to have that. So depending on your desired projected image, you might want to go with the typographically "bad" choice, for psychological reasons. I wonder whether real designers regard this with the same distaste as I would about copy & paste programming…

ugh 16y ago
I don’t think Comic Sans and Papyrus are popular because people prefer them to choices a designer would make. They are popular because they are readily available. Normal people pick a font by looking at the font dropdown in Word. You actually have to pay a lot of money for most fonts on the submission’s list. A lot of good could be done for this world by operating systems with better default fonts.
- mhd 16y ago
  Windows and Mac do have better fonts available, so that can't be the sole reason. What both fonts have in common, is that they don't look professional. So they are intended to convey a different mood by their user – which gets somewhat ironic when you consider the amount of passive-agressive notes written in Comic Sans. Just like deliberate spelling mistakes (flickr, tumblr etc.) are used to convey a certain non-chalance, using "bad" fonts might be used as a tool. It's probably not good for long-standing branding, but for cheap one-off mass market communication, it might fly. Personally, I probably wouldn't, but then again, I'm one of those who considers sans-serif fonts necessary evils in this low-DPI world, not much more.
  - ugh 16y ago
    There aren’t really any alternatives to Comic Sans or Papyrus on Windows. Everything else looks awful when printed (Verdana) or is, if somewhat more – ehem – professional than Comic Sans, not exactly very emotional (Times New Roman).

WilliamLP 16y ago

I wonder if I'm the only one here who is completely font-blind? I never notice what font something is unless someone points it out, let alone being able to pick out 25 specific ones. I guess that makes me a poor candidate for being a designer, doesn't it!

nsfmc 16y ago
no, it's a learned skill. Mostly you get better at it by a) using them and b) reading about them. It took me about two years of minor curiosity and looking up at things before i definitively spotted my first random non-system font. The key, and this is important, fonts have historical baggage and they also are designed by relatively few people. After doing this, you start to see designer-traits and also historical influences. The hardest thing to see is white-space, which is another "i know kung fu" moment.
Chris_Newton 16y ago
Alas, typography is cursed by two common afflications in the design community: 1. Good typography does not draw attention to itself. Most people will only notice your typographical work when you get it wrong. When you get it right, the reader takes in the information and registers the mood without ever noticing the medium. 2. There are snobs, who will artificially exaggerate the differences between fonts to try to appear more knowledgeable. There are differences between fonts and they really can create very different results. However, sometimes there are two well-designed fonts that happen to be very similar, and you really could use either with good, professional-looking results. Arguing about which of these fonts is "better" invariably generates more heat than light. In other words, if you're not a trained designer, you're supposed to be font-blind. And if you are a trained designer, your reader should be font-blind. If they are noticing the details of which font you use, you're probably not doing a very good job.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
m912 16y ago
I always compare this to football (or 'soccer') fans who always seem to know an impossibly large amount on the subject compared to me. I guess it's just what you're in to — I suppose the same goes for music and movies.

tptacek 16y ago

What a weak post. I'm going to spend a career alternating between Helvetica and Akzidenz? Clarendon (really?) and Rockwell? Why? Why would a designer ever use "Avant Garde"? What's the last major thing to ever use Optima? Some of these faces seem terribly out of fashion (Optima, Rotis, Clarendon). Some of them seem useful only if you're going to set printed books (Bembo, Garamond). Some of them are so closely related (Akzidenz and Helvetica, Univers Avenir and Frutiger) that it's hard to see why all of them are here. But what really bugs me about this post is that it contains no content. Choose whatever faces you want; you're supposedly the expert, blog writer! Just tell us something about them when you do.

bonzoesc 16y ago
> What's the last major thing to ever use Optima? > Some of these faces seem terribly out of fashion (Optima, Rotis). The 2008 McCain/Palin campaign used Optima.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Seriously, not snarkily: case in point. Their visual identity was ridiculed during the campaign (Obama's campaign famously used HF+J Gotham, which has since become a design cliche because of overuse by designers).
- mdg 16y ago
  How can you tell? Are you able to tell what a typeface is just by looking at it? What characteristics help you decide ? I have been trying to learn about typography, passively, for the past couple months. Anything sans serif looks like Helvetica to me.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    Optima is a very famous typeface. It's probably the most famous humanist sans --- these are faces that try to capture the quirks of handwriting or calligraphy. The uppercase letters mimic carved-in-stone Roman letters. Because it has serif-y features (flared terminals in particular) it's notoriously hard to harmonize with other faces. Every designer in the world can spot it on sight. In general, look at the contrast in weights (where do the lines get thinner and thicker) and the axis of those contrasts (is the "hand" drawing the letter positioned at an angle?). In a Sans, you can also eyeball how "geometric" the letters are; is the "o" a perfect circle, for instance? Even if you're not a designer (I'm definitely not), it's worth it to buy a copy of Bringhurst's _Elements of Typography_; it's a beautifully written and designed little book.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

ExpertIdiot 16y ago

There is no justification for any of these fonts. He could've simply spun the wheel'o fonts and picked 25 of these. Most fonts have a real designer behind them that designed the font for a reason. The font depicts a mood and should be used for specific situations. This just makes it seem like you should pick any font of your choosing and run wild with it. Since there are 25 I surely can't run out right?

aw3c2 16y ago

Content-void topX list with affliate links.

hsmyers 16y ago

The complete lack of any mention of printer's ornaments (pi fonts) or specialty fonts (chess anyone?) suggests that 'Career' doesn't even begin to cover edge cases. Which of course leaves the land of hum-drum in the middle--- no thanks!

someone_here 16y ago
No need for specialty fonts for chess since all chess pieces are in Unicode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_symbols_in_Unicode http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_symbols_in_Unicode
- wmf 16y ago
  I'm going to take a wild guess that not all fonts include all Unicode characters.

joshstaiger 16y ago

I recommend Bringhurst's Elements of Typographical Style as a crash course in typography. http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Bringhurst/dp/0881791326 http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Brin... It contains wonderful guidelines for typesetting and also gives a sense of history and culture behind common fonts. Also useful is this site that outlines how to apply Bringhurst's principles to the web: http://webtypography.net/ http://webtypography.net/

spacecadet 16y ago

As a designer I'm tired of seeing this post(10th time now?) Which is always directly "borrowed" from this book... http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Typefaces-Lifetime-Joshua-Berger/dp/1592532780 http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Typefaces-Lifetime-Joshua-Be... Which I have owned for, god I dont even remember how long. Dont defend these typefaces to deeply. They come with almost every computer today, so they are accessible to almost everyone (maybe mircosoft decided to catch up?). Which is why they are good for a lifetime. Right now there are many contemporary type foundries putting out some really beautiful typefaces. Like these guys. http://processtypefoundry.com/ http://processtypefoundry.com/ Thats all. peace.

slashclee 16y ago
I really love Mark Simonson's fonts. Anonymous Pro is a great fixed-width font, and I really like Proxima Nova and Mostra Nuova. I'd much rather give him my money than Adobe.

sahillavingia 16y ago

I could use one font in my whole design career, though it would be an awefully short one if I did!

teye 16y ago

How could you make a list like that and omit HFJ's Gotham in favor of FF Dax or Myriad? Many of these are roughly equivalent. Terrible list. A few seconds of searching turns up an infinitely more interesting piece from Smashing Magazine: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/03/20/60-brilliant-typefaces-for-corporate-design/ http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/03/20/60-brilliant-type...

gabrielroth 16y ago
Gotham has been used so much in the past couple years that I'd be very wary of using it for anything. In ten years it'll immediately scream '2009'.
- teye 16y ago
  It very well may. I point it out because it seems to be becoming a default, just as Helvetica has.

kadavy 16y ago

Remember, most of these won't look so good as body copy on the web: http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/design-for-hackers-why-you-dont-use-garamond-on-the-web/ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/design-for-hackers-why-you-...

garrickvanburen 16y ago

These are all fine faces with (mostly) very rigid licenses around them. If your design career was online - the chances of you able to easily use any of them in a meaningful way is nil. There are some great faces released under the OFL, GPL, and CC licenses.