5 ms·

You are a pest when you use a service and give nothing back in return, stealing resources that are better allocated to users that actually contribute to revenue

You are a pest when you use a service and give nothing back in return, stealing resources that are better allocated to users that actually contribute to revenue.

mephitix 8y ago
I don't understand... isn't that something that the company decides? How are users stealing something? For the longest time companies have been able to market something as 'free' when they have been the ones who have been trying to hide the fact that users' data was being sold, etc. So I would argue that if someone is 'stealing', it is actually the companies themselves.
- mrep 8y ago
  No, GDPR effectively says that you have to get the users to opt in to your targeted ads (aka the business model) but you also cannot deny them the content if you opt out. In effect, the EU wants to get all the content for free while not paying the costs that give them such great content which is targeted advertising. The "stealing" is because they are trying to get companies to give their content out for free without paying the cost which requires targeted advertising (and no, generic ads pay shit which is why tons of companies are blocking all the EU because they now aren't worth the server costs).
Barrin92 8y ago
I know this sounds extreme but you could always go with the good old approach of charging users money for provided goods and services, instead of monetizing their data or throwing ads at them.
- product50 8y ago
  Well European users (like other users) don't want to pay as well. And why create a specific feature for European users when globally people are just fine clicking on ads.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    What makes you think that European users do not want to pay for content they consume? Given that Europeans passed this law we apparently are. You don't need to create a specific feature for European users if you don't want to, just as European users don't need to do business with you if you don't value their privacy. Economic exchanges are voluntary. If you think ignoring European customers is something that pays off for you, go for it.
    - product50 8y ago
      Can you point me to any specific study which says that Europeans are more willing pay for content vs. rest of the world? I mean, if that were true, you would see a lot more paywalls in Europe vs. globally.
      - Barrin92 8y ago
        I don't know of any such study but I'm not sure why I need to given that this law quite clearly reveals the preference of European citizens? If we would not care about privacy to a greater degree than other regions we would presumably not pass legislation that protects private information and cuts into ad-revenues.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- matte_black 8y ago
  This may blow some minds, but we keep data from paying users too. It’s the nature of the business.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    In the interest of transparency you should probably disclose which business that is.
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      Yes, when you're telling the angry mob why you won't give in to their irrational demands, you should definitely tell them who you are and how to hurt you...for transparency.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        No, it's just that I would not want to do business with him. After all, if someone exhibits a certain attitude towards their users' data that is a good indicator that there is more that isn't done properly. It's funny that you think that it's totally ok to do this.
        ryanwaggoner 8y ago
        It’s funny how easily you throw around straw man fallacies.
- tzs 8y ago
  Even if you charge EU customers for goods and services, you end up having to collect and store personal information in order to provide evidence to tax authorities that you collected and paid the right amount of VAT for each country.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    that's not in violation with the GDPR at all. (it's also nothing that anybody is really concerned about). What's really being affected on the backend side of things is bulk data collection and storage and sharing with 3rd parties without consent.
notananthem 8y ago
Right if you don't follow the law, you're now conducting illegal business. I think you get that, but you just don't want to fess up to it.
jilnji 8y ago
Nobody's stealing anything. You're giving the product away for free. Sure, the user is still "paying" with their data. But they didn't sign up for that. (And if they did, congrats, you're a step closer to GDPR compliance!) If you're sick of people using your product and not giving anything in return, Charge. A. Fee.
- orangecat 8y ago
  Sure, the user is still "paying" with their data. But they didn't sign up for that. (And if they did, congrats, you're a step closer to GDPR compliance!) The GDPR specifically forbids giving users the option of paying with data. (In that you can't deny access if the user doesn't agree to the data usage). Charge. A. Fee. It turns out that a whole lot of users don't want microtransactions for everything they do online, and would rather allow providers to monetize their data in exchange for access. You not liking those agreements is not a reasonable justification for forcibly banning them.

You are a pest when you use a service and give nothing back in return, stealing resources that are better allocated to users that actually contribute to revenue.

mephitix 8y ago

I don't understand... isn't that something that the company decides? How are users stealing something? For the longest time companies have been able to market something as 'free' when they have been the ones who have been trying to hide the fact that users' data was being sold, etc. So I would argue that if someone is 'stealing', it is actually the companies themselves.

mrep 8y ago
No, GDPR effectively says that you have to get the users to opt in to your targeted ads (aka the business model) but you also cannot deny them the content if you opt out. In effect, the EU wants to get all the content for free while not paying the costs that give them such great content which is targeted advertising. The "stealing" is because they are trying to get companies to give their content out for free without paying the cost which requires targeted advertising (and no, generic ads pay shit which is why tons of companies are blocking all the EU because they now aren't worth the server costs).

Barrin92 8y ago

I know this sounds extreme but you could always go with the good old approach of charging users money for provided goods and services, instead of monetizing their data or throwing ads at them.

product50 8y ago
Well European users (like other users) don't want to pay as well. And why create a specific feature for European users when globally people are just fine clicking on ads.
- Barrin92 8y ago
  What makes you think that European users do not want to pay for content they consume? Given that Europeans passed this law we apparently are. You don't need to create a specific feature for European users if you don't want to, just as European users don't need to do business with you if you don't value their privacy. Economic exchanges are voluntary. If you think ignoring European customers is something that pays off for you, go for it.
  - product50 8y ago
    Can you point me to any specific study which says that Europeans are more willing pay for content vs. rest of the world? I mean, if that were true, you would see a lot more paywalls in Europe vs. globally.
    - Barrin92 8y ago
      I don't know of any such study but I'm not sure why I need to given that this law quite clearly reveals the preference of European citizens? If we would not care about privacy to a greater degree than other regions we would presumably not pass legislation that protects private information and cuts into ad-revenues.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
matte_black 8y ago
This may blow some minds, but we keep data from paying users too. It’s the nature of the business.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  In the interest of transparency you should probably disclose which business that is.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    Yes, when you're telling the angry mob why you won't give in to their irrational demands, you should definitely tell them who you are and how to hurt you...for transparency.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      No, it's just that I would not want to do business with him. After all, if someone exhibits a certain attitude towards their users' data that is a good indicator that there is more that isn't done properly. It's funny that you think that it's totally ok to do this.
      - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
        It’s funny how easily you throw around straw man fallacies.
tzs 8y ago
Even if you charge EU customers for goods and services, you end up having to collect and store personal information in order to provide evidence to tax authorities that you collected and paid the right amount of VAT for each country.
- Barrin92 8y ago
  that's not in violation with the GDPR at all. (it's also nothing that anybody is really concerned about). What's really being affected on the backend side of things is bulk data collection and storage and sharing with 3rd parties without consent.

notananthem 8y ago

Right if you don't follow the law, you're now conducting illegal business. I think you get that, but you just don't want to fess up to it.

jilnji 8y ago

Nobody's stealing anything. You're giving the product away for free. Sure, the user is still "paying" with their data. But they didn't sign up for that. (And if they did, congrats, you're a step closer to GDPR compliance!) If you're sick of people using your product and not giving anything in return, Charge. A. Fee.

orangecat 8y ago
Sure, the user is still "paying" with their data. But they didn't sign up for that. (And if they did, congrats, you're a step closer to GDPR compliance!) The GDPR specifically forbids giving users the option of paying with data. (In that you can't deny access if the user doesn't agree to the data usage). Charge. A. Fee. It turns out that a whole lot of users don't want microtransactions for everything they do online, and would rather allow providers to monetize their data in exchange for access. You not liking those agreements is not a reasonable justification for forcibly banning them.