8 ms·

We do take security seriously and we're not doing anything dodgy. We have business reasons for collecting user data, and users have no real reason to tell us t

We do take security seriously and we're not doing anything dodgy. We have business reasons for collecting user data, and users have no real reason to tell us to delete it at will, other than the fact that it makes them feel "creeped out". The future is probably going to be super creepy. If you want to participate, get over it.

Panoramix 8y ago
-We're not doing anything dodgy. -Other than the fact that it makes them feel "creeped out". Pick one.
- matte_black 8y ago
  Feeling creeped out doesn't mean someone is being dodgy.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    But more times than not it does. Since there's a long history of companies doing bad stuff, you definitely don't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one.
    - mirko22 8y ago
      there is also a long history of people giving up their personal data to get some (overall) irrelevant service and then being surprised when their data is missused...
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        Yes, but how much of that can be attributed to the service not adequately explaining what they are collecting and how they are using it to the users upfront, in a format that non-lawyers can understand?
        mirko22 8y ago
        Non-lawyers are very large and diverse group of people. My mother does not understand where data is kept, what is encryption or anonymisation even if you darw it for her... and if my father wants tp watch porn he’ll pop his CC where ever just to jerk off...
amaccuish 8y ago
And this is literally what GDPR was created for. Hoping you've blocked access to the EU so I don't happen across it :)
- matte_black 8y ago
  Good luck proving we're not in compliance.
- austinheap 8y ago
  This is exactly what startups are worried about: inane threats from EU users.
- freedomben 8y ago
  It is genuinely fascinating to me how different people can feel about things. I get enraged when my "government" tells me what I can and can't do with my body/money/time. If I want to snort coke all day, what business of theirs is it as long as I'm not infringing on others' rights? Likewise, if I want to give my data to a super sketchy website, why shouldn't I be able to? Obviously it's "safer" to let others make rules and force us inside the fence to keep us sheep away from the dangerous wolves out there. I do understand that perspective to some extent. However I would never trade my freedom for security. The former is not easy to regain.
  - michelledepeil 8y ago
    Except they're not taking freedom away from users, they're taking freedom away from corporations. Freedom that many corporations have been abusing. This is a key difference in perspective. Your example where you "want to give your data away to a sketchy website" is not in any way representative of reality when a) the website is as ubiquitous as for instance FB, and thus in no way perceived as sketchy, and b) the user makes no conscious decision to consent (let alone "wants it").
    - freedomben 8y ago
      I think you have a decent point there, but the comment I replied to literally said: > Hoping you've blocked access to the EU so I don't happen across it :) Being glad that he doesn't have the freedom to use the site, thanks to a government law (whether a side-effect of the law or a direct effect is irrelevant, because the law brought it out just the same).
orf 8y ago
So lets unpick this. You think you're not doing anything dodgy with your users personal information. However you feel that their information is your information and users have absolutely 'no real reason to tell us to delete it' (apart from, you know, it being their information). Then you top it off by taking a screeching right turn and saying 'future is going to be creepy ... get over it'. Riiiight. You sound like the perfect person to be handing my personal information and I would trust you to take full care of it. Not.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I tend to agree with what you've said here, but there's a lot of unnecessary snark in your comment.
  - jcims 8y ago
    There is an epidemic of snark in the overall conversation about GDPR. I'm sure I have my biases and blind spots, but the majority seems to come from the same direction as the comment you are replying to.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  It's not "their" information. It's information about them. I collected it and stored in my servers that I'm paying for, and that makes it my information. Your laws may say differently, but practicality wins here.
  - lima 8y ago
    Your bio says you're a Microsoft employee. Hopefully you're talking about a side project?
    - freeone3000 8y ago
      My opinions are my own. The above was meant to refer to a philosophical stance, and not any particular instance of data collection. EDIT: Not allowed to say what was previously put here.
tlogan 8y ago
Here is the thing: my email and personal info is mine. And if you are using my info to provide me your service that is also ok - I will rent that to you. And give you my CC#. But if I do not use your service, then I want that you delete all my personal data. Why is that so hard?
- ovao 8y ago
  But is knowledge of your email address yours? Do you expect to control all knowledge? What action do you take when someone accidentally CCs another party when they should’ve BCC’ed, and your address is leaked? There are pieces of information that are particularly problematic for other parties to know. An email address is not one of those things.
  - Tomte 8y ago
    > What action do you take when someone accidentally CCs another party when they should’ve BCC’ed, and your address is leaked? I realize that it was a user error, am a bit miffed about it for two minutes, maybe mail them that they should be more careful with mail addresses. If, OTOH, it's a business misusing my mail address intentionally and for monetary profit, I hope that regulators stomp on them.
    - ovao 8y ago
      Retaining email addresses doesn’t necessarily suggest deliberate misuse (or even accidental misuse), however. Unless you’re of the opinion that retaining it after, say, account closure/deactivation, is itself misuse. I’d take a big issue to an organization storing a social security number or something of that nature, because its leak would represent a significant risk, but email addresses are fairly disposable items that we only voluntarily attach to ourselves to.
      - Tomte 8y ago
        Disclosing mail addresses to all other users is misuse, albeit usually accidental misuse.
Normal_gaussian 8y ago
So we just have to believe you? With no effective recourse if you lie? no thanks.

Panoramix 8y ago

-We're not doing anything dodgy. -Other than the fact that it makes them feel "creeped out". Pick one.

matte_black 8y ago
Feeling creeped out doesn't mean someone is being dodgy.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  But more times than not it does. Since there's a long history of companies doing bad stuff, you definitely don't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one.
  - mirko22 8y ago
    there is also a long history of people giving up their personal data to get some (overall) irrelevant service and then being surprised when their data is missused...
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Yes, but how much of that can be attributed to the service not adequately explaining what they are collecting and how they are using it to the users upfront, in a format that non-lawyers can understand?
      - mirko22 8y ago
        Non-lawyers are very large and diverse group of people. My mother does not understand where data is kept, what is encryption or anonymisation even if you darw it for her... and if my father wants tp watch porn he’ll pop his CC where ever just to jerk off...

amaccuish 8y ago

And this is literally what GDPR was created for. Hoping you've blocked access to the EU so I don't happen across it :)

matte_black 8y ago
Good luck proving we're not in compliance.
austinheap 8y ago
This is exactly what startups are worried about: inane threats from EU users.
freedomben 8y ago
It is genuinely fascinating to me how different people can feel about things. I get enraged when my "government" tells me what I can and can't do with my body/money/time. If I want to snort coke all day, what business of theirs is it as long as I'm not infringing on others' rights? Likewise, if I want to give my data to a super sketchy website, why shouldn't I be able to? Obviously it's "safer" to let others make rules and force us inside the fence to keep us sheep away from the dangerous wolves out there. I do understand that perspective to some extent. However I would never trade my freedom for security. The former is not easy to regain.
- michelledepeil 8y ago
  Except they're not taking freedom away from users, they're taking freedom away from corporations. Freedom that many corporations have been abusing. This is a key difference in perspective. Your example where you "want to give your data away to a sketchy website" is not in any way representative of reality when a) the website is as ubiquitous as for instance FB, and thus in no way perceived as sketchy, and b) the user makes no conscious decision to consent (let alone "wants it").
  - freedomben 8y ago
    I think you have a decent point there, but the comment I replied to literally said: > Hoping you've blocked access to the EU so I don't happen across it :) Being glad that he doesn't have the freedom to use the site, thanks to a government law (whether a side-effect of the law or a direct effect is irrelevant, because the law brought it out just the same).

orf 8y ago

So lets unpick this. You think you're not doing anything dodgy with your users personal information. However you feel that their information is your information and users have absolutely 'no real reason to tell us to delete it' (apart from, you know, it being their information). Then you top it off by taking a screeching right turn and saying 'future is going to be creepy ... get over it'. Riiiight. You sound like the perfect person to be handing my personal information and I would trust you to take full care of it. Not.

freedomben 8y ago
I tend to agree with what you've said here, but there's a lot of unnecessary snark in your comment.
- jcims 8y ago
  There is an epidemic of snark in the overall conversation about GDPR. I'm sure I have my biases and blind spots, but the majority seems to come from the same direction as the comment you are replying to.
freeone3000 8y ago
It's not "their" information. It's information about them. I collected it and stored in my servers that I'm paying for, and that makes it my information. Your laws may say differently, but practicality wins here.
- lima 8y ago
  Your bio says you're a Microsoft employee. Hopefully you're talking about a side project?
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    My opinions are my own. The above was meant to refer to a philosophical stance, and not any particular instance of data collection. EDIT: Not allowed to say what was previously put here.

tlogan 8y ago

Here is the thing: my email and personal info is mine. And if you are using my info to provide me your service that is also ok - I will rent that to you. And give you my CC#. But if I do not use your service, then I want that you delete all my personal data. Why is that so hard?

ovao 8y ago
But is knowledge of your email address yours? Do you expect to control all knowledge? What action do you take when someone accidentally CCs another party when they should’ve BCC’ed, and your address is leaked? There are pieces of information that are particularly problematic for other parties to know. An email address is not one of those things.
- Tomte 8y ago
  > What action do you take when someone accidentally CCs another party when they should’ve BCC’ed, and your address is leaked? I realize that it was a user error, am a bit miffed about it for two minutes, maybe mail them that they should be more careful with mail addresses. If, OTOH, it's a business misusing my mail address intentionally and for monetary profit, I hope that regulators stomp on them.
  - ovao 8y ago
    Retaining email addresses doesn’t necessarily suggest deliberate misuse (or even accidental misuse), however. Unless you’re of the opinion that retaining it after, say, account closure/deactivation, is itself misuse. I’d take a big issue to an organization storing a social security number or something of that nature, because its leak would represent a significant risk, but email addresses are fairly disposable items that we only voluntarily attach to ourselves to.
    - Tomte 8y ago
      Disclosing mail addresses to all other users is misuse, albeit usually accidental misuse.

Normal_gaussian 8y ago

So we just have to believe you? With no effective recourse if you lie? no thanks.