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> Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x

> Europe should learn to build better tech, and learn to pay their engineers what they're actually worth if they want to compete with the US that pays 3x or 5x more. I'm an European and I must say that's bullshit. Yes, you can earn 3x to 5x more in Silicon Valley. Property prices are crazy expensive however, many people don't afford to live near their office, with crazy commute times being common, the schools there are either expensive and crazily competitive or poor, if you work on your own or in a startup it's pretty common to not have health insurance, in which case you can get fucked, plus your gun control is pretty broken and it's horrific to see kids shot in US schools all the time. I live in Romania. I'm within 15 minutes of my office that I do by bike, I have both public and private health insurance for cheap (and in spite of popular opinion, Bucharest has some of the best trained medical personnel in the world), my earnings are well above the average which means that for me the cost of living is cheap, my 8 year old son goes to a good public school, I own my own apartment and we'll build a house in the future too and I freely travel to Berlin, Munich, London, Barcelona, Rome, etc. yearly for conferences and I can walk the streets of Bucharest without fear, gun-related murders and murder in general being almost unheard of. People in Silicon Valley may be earning 5x, but the cost of living is 10x at least. If anything, Silicon Valley is only attractive because all the cool companies are there. But you know what, due to the high competition, nowadays you've got plenty of companies hiring remotely or opening offices in Europe. I'm fine with that.

pqaewofjawe 8y ago
Keep in mind that in absolute terms, earning 5x more and 10x cost of living might be larger savings. It sounds like Romania is a nice place, so you could even save for 5 years and retire there. That said, I dislike rewarding california a single cent of tax revenue for them to piss their LSD-addled urine into the wind, fuck SF go to austin TX (state income tax, easiest 10% raise of your life! pay is same as SF)
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
Most of this is pretty irrelevant to the comment you're replying to. The argument is that EU companies don't pay tech talent what they're worth. School shootings and bike lanes don't have anything to do with that. And I'm completely sympathetic to the argument that you're making about compensation vs. cost-of-living, but I think you're mistaken. The cost of living isn't 10x that of Europe. Taking into account taxes and government benefits that we have to pay for ourselves, it's probably more like 50-100% more expensive to live in, say, the Bay Area or NYC vs. any major metro area in Europe other than Eastern Europe, which will catch up eventually. I could be wrong though! I live in NYC, in a very nice 2 bedroom apartment in a doorman building right next to a large park. My daughter attends an expensive private school. We have excellent healthcare, travel a LOT, eat out frequently, etc. Total basic budget (not including taxes, savings, or other splurges) is ~$10k - 12k / month. Is your budget for similar lifestyle around $1k / month? In general, those of us in the US who are lucky enough to work in tech and live in HCOL areas and work for high salaries aren't irrational; the tradeoff is usually worth it, especially if you enjoy urban areas.
dmitrygr 8y ago
That is a good argument, but some things are priced as absolutes and not as a percent of CoL. So, true, in Romania your salary is ~ 10x your CoL and in SV it would be 5x maybe, but the money left over in absolute terms (9x Romainan_CoL vs 5x SV_CoL) is significantly different. So, if you want something that is priced absolutely, like a plane or a boat, SV is still better.

pqaewofjawe 8y ago

Keep in mind that in absolute terms, earning 5x more and 10x cost of living might be larger savings. It sounds like Romania is a nice place, so you could even save for 5 years and retire there. That said, I dislike rewarding california a single cent of tax revenue for them to piss their LSD-addled urine into the wind, fuck SF go to austin TX (state income tax, easiest 10% raise of your life! pay is same as SF)

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

Most of this is pretty irrelevant to the comment you're replying to. The argument is that EU companies don't pay tech talent what they're worth. School shootings and bike lanes don't have anything to do with that. And I'm completely sympathetic to the argument that you're making about compensation vs. cost-of-living, but I think you're mistaken. The cost of living isn't 10x that of Europe. Taking into account taxes and government benefits that we have to pay for ourselves, it's probably more like 50-100% more expensive to live in, say, the Bay Area or NYC vs. any major metro area in Europe other than Eastern Europe, which will catch up eventually. I could be wrong though! I live in NYC, in a very nice 2 bedroom apartment in a doorman building right next to a large park. My daughter attends an expensive private school. We have excellent healthcare, travel a LOT, eat out frequently, etc. Total basic budget (not including taxes, savings, or other splurges) is ~$10k - 12k / month. Is your budget for similar lifestyle around $1k / month? In general, those of us in the US who are lucky enough to work in tech and live in HCOL areas and work for high salaries aren't irrational; the tradeoff is usually worth it, especially if you enjoy urban areas.

dmitrygr 8y ago

That is a good argument, but some things are priced as absolutes and not as a percent of CoL. So, true, in Romania your salary is ~ 10x your CoL and in SV it would be 5x maybe, but the money left over in absolute terms (9x Romainan_CoL vs 5x SV_CoL) is significantly different. So, if you want something that is priced absolutely, like a plane or a boat, SV is still better.