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On one hand I can understand why some orgs are having trouble with GDPR. On the other hand it’s pretty clear the actions of more than a few have gotten GDPR to

by awat 8y ago

On one hand I can understand why some orgs are having trouble with GDPR. On the other hand it’s pretty clear the actions of more than a few have gotten GDPR to where it is. My takeaway at the moment is something along the lines of this is why we can’t have nice things.

dominotw 8y ago
I attribute it to European jealously over american tech success. Hi tech success that flies in the face of their supposed social, cultural and moral superiority. User tracking is not really why we don't have nice things, look at the success of moviepass even after they publicly admitted what they were tracking. People want part of the spoils which is exactly the purpose of GDPR.
- gcthomas 8y ago
  Isn't Moviepass hæmmoraging $20 million a day while its share price tanks? No, if you knew how Europeans think, you'd realise that this is really just about securing privacy. Most of the regulators are really focussed on ensuring compliance, not levying fines.
  - getsugablitz2 8y ago
    They're losing $20 million a month, if they were losing that per day that'd really be something. Probably would be out of business in a few weeks.
  - dominotw 8y ago
    > Isn't Moviepass hæmmoraging $20 million a day while its share price tanks? Correct me if I am wrong. But that just proves my point rather than yours, correct? They are losing so much from ppl using not because ppl are quitting it due to privacy concerns.
    - gcthomas 8y ago
      They are losing money because they have an unsustainable pricing model. Other cinema services were saying Movie pass would fail as soon as they started.
- joepie91_ 8y ago
  > I attribute it to European jealously over american tech success. Hi tech success that flies in the face of their supposed social, cultural and moral superiority. The EU isn't the US. This kind of misplaced pride is not a part of the culture in most of Europe.
RpFLCL 8y ago
That's the takeaway I'm arriving at as well. We (as an industry) had about two decades to be responsible and hold others to account with user data online. Instead we opted to pretend like a weasely Terms of Service replaced a sense of morality. Now we face regulation because, as it turns out, people care about how we use their data and how we influence them. Not exactly shocking that we ended up here.
- kenjackson 8y ago
  Do people care that much about we use their data? I mean they care a little bit, but I still think given the choice between where we're at technologically and where we'd be if no one had access to users data -- I think the vast majority would take where we're at today. The funny thing is that I generally wish companies did more with my user data. Why don't events sites do a better job just showing me events it thinks I'll like -- when was the last time I showed any interest in country music? I think customization is a huge value.
  - king_phil 8y ago
    They do, yes! I do!
  - almost_usual 8y ago
    That's great and your choice it shouldn't be the default for everyone. If someone sees the benefit in an algorithm learning what they like then let them pick that option. It's not up to engineers to assume what someone cares about.
mistaken 8y ago
Businesses had plenty of time to prepare for it though.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Preparing for the GDPR and caring about the GDPR are two different things.
ajmurmann 8y ago
As someone else is pointing out, a business needs to have a positive reason to follow this regulation. If the very vast majority of my business is from US readers/customers and practically no money comes in from European readers why would I put any effort in at all to comply rather than just block. The only scenario where this would happen is of compliance was cheaper than blocking.
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  Because bitter HN users will call you shady if you don’t fully comply with their pet law, no matter how ambiguous or onerous :)
  - dmitriid 8y ago
    This "pet law" is the law of 500 million people, has been in effect for two years (two years was a grace period to comply with it), and exists exactly because shady businesses didn't even comply with existing data protection laws. It's not "bitter HN users". It's bitter European citizens. No wonder that it's mostly American companies who have the most trouble complying with it.
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      Pass whatever law you want, just don’t expect me to care. This law has nothing to do with me. If you don’t want to do business with me because I’m not compliant, don’t send me server requests, data, or money.
      - dmitriid 8y ago
        > Pass whatever law you want, just don’t expect me to care. That was exactly the position of too many companies: pass whatever law, I don't care. Well. It has gone on for too long, so, hopefully, now companies will start to care. > If you don’t want to do business with me because I’m not compliant, don’t send me server requests, data, or money. The EU is 500 million people. It looks to me that it's you who doesn't want to do business just because you think that other countries' laws and other countries' rights are bullshit and you don't care about them. I say, good riddance.

by awat 8y ago

dominotw 8y ago

I attribute it to European jealously over american tech success. Hi tech success that flies in the face of their supposed social, cultural and moral superiority. User tracking is not really why we don't have nice things, look at the success of moviepass even after they publicly admitted what they were tracking. People want part of the spoils which is exactly the purpose of GDPR.

gcthomas 8y ago
Isn't Moviepass hæmmoraging $20 million a day while its share price tanks? No, if you knew how Europeans think, you'd realise that this is really just about securing privacy. Most of the regulators are really focussed on ensuring compliance, not levying fines.
- getsugablitz2 8y ago
  They're losing $20 million a month, if they were losing that per day that'd really be something. Probably would be out of business in a few weeks.
- dominotw 8y ago
  > Isn't Moviepass hæmmoraging $20 million a day while its share price tanks? Correct me if I am wrong. But that just proves my point rather than yours, correct? They are losing so much from ppl using not because ppl are quitting it due to privacy concerns.
  - gcthomas 8y ago
    They are losing money because they have an unsustainable pricing model. Other cinema services were saying Movie pass would fail as soon as they started.
joepie91_ 8y ago
> I attribute it to European jealously over american tech success. Hi tech success that flies in the face of their supposed social, cultural and moral superiority. The EU isn't the US. This kind of misplaced pride is not a part of the culture in most of Europe.

RpFLCL 8y ago

That's the takeaway I'm arriving at as well. We (as an industry) had about two decades to be responsible and hold others to account with user data online. Instead we opted to pretend like a weasely Terms of Service replaced a sense of morality. Now we face regulation because, as it turns out, people care about how we use their data and how we influence them. Not exactly shocking that we ended up here.

kenjackson 8y ago
Do people care that much about we use their data? I mean they care a little bit, but I still think given the choice between where we're at technologically and where we'd be if no one had access to users data -- I think the vast majority would take where we're at today. The funny thing is that I generally wish companies did more with my user data. Why don't events sites do a better job just showing me events it thinks I'll like -- when was the last time I showed any interest in country music? I think customization is a huge value.
- king_phil 8y ago
  They do, yes! I do!
- almost_usual 8y ago
  That's great and your choice it shouldn't be the default for everyone. If someone sees the benefit in an algorithm learning what they like then let them pick that option. It's not up to engineers to assume what someone cares about.

mistaken 8y ago

Businesses had plenty of time to prepare for it though.

reaperducer 8y ago
Preparing for the GDPR and caring about the GDPR are two different things.

ajmurmann 8y ago

As someone else is pointing out, a business needs to have a positive reason to follow this regulation. If the very vast majority of my business is from US readers/customers and practically no money comes in from European readers why would I put any effort in at all to comply rather than just block. The only scenario where this would happen is of compliance was cheaper than blocking.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago
Because bitter HN users will call you shady if you don’t fully comply with their pet law, no matter how ambiguous or onerous :)
- dmitriid 8y ago
  This "pet law" is the law of 500 million people, has been in effect for two years (two years was a grace period to comply with it), and exists exactly because shady businesses didn't even comply with existing data protection laws. It's not "bitter HN users". It's bitter European citizens. No wonder that it's mostly American companies who have the most trouble complying with it.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    Pass whatever law you want, just don’t expect me to care. This law has nothing to do with me. If you don’t want to do business with me because I’m not compliant, don’t send me server requests, data, or money.
    - dmitriid 8y ago
      > Pass whatever law you want, just don’t expect me to care. That was exactly the position of too many companies: pass whatever law, I don't care. Well. It has gone on for too long, so, hopefully, now companies will start to care. > If you don’t want to do business with me because I’m not compliant, don’t send me server requests, data, or money. The EU is 500 million people. It looks to me that it's you who doesn't want to do business just because you think that other countries' laws and other countries' rights are bullshit and you don't care about them. I say, good riddance.