4 ms·

In my experience, it has little to do with public trust and a lot to do with payment processor fees and an older population (which includes middle aged and olde

by zhdc1 8y ago

In my experience, it has little to do with public trust and a lot to do with payment processor fees and an older population (which includes middle aged and older shop owners) having an aversion to paying in anything other than cash. A cashless bakery opened up here recently, and it was a big enough deal to make several newspapers.

lars_francke 8y ago
As a fellow german I couldn't agree more. I only have anecdotal evidence (but to be fair I didn't see any evidence in the article either that this cash-focus in Germany is really based on privacy/trust issues) but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. You're looked at funny if you want to pay small amounts by card here. Part of the reason I think where historically high costs attached to credit card payments but the girocard system has been pretty cheap all along. Another issue I see is that it sometimes takes ages for the machines to do their thing. I've been wondering for a while what the reason could be when using PINs. When I lived in Switzerland I remember things working like this at a supermarket: 1) You put all your stuff on the belt at the register 2) While your stuff is being scanned you can already put your card in the machine, enter your PIN and press okay once 3) When everything's scanned you only have to press ok again and the transaction is finished In Germany it's different. You first have to wait for the whole scanning/entering into the register process to be finished before you can even put your card in the machine. Hoping contactless payment will make this easier.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  > I only have anecdotal evidence (but to be fair I didn't see any evidence in the article either that this cash-focus in Germany is really based on privacy/trust issues) but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. I know quite some in Germany (and see myself among them). "Ironically" I observe that the people who are most vocally privacy-minded (also concerning cash) - at least in my cicrcle - often have studied computer science (or a related subject) or are at least very interested in computer science topics, while the people who argue very vocally that paying via credit card/NFC/... is so much more convenient are not the kind of people who are very interested in computer science topics.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    > while the people who argue very vocally that paying via credit card/NFC/... is so much more convenient are not the kind of people that is very interested in computer science topics. They are usually also among those folks who don't think anybody would be interested in their data along the lines of "What are they even gonna do with it? Why should I care" firmly belonging to the "Nothing to hide, so I got nothing to fear" camp.
- freeflight 8y ago
  > but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. Only a few people state this as their main reason, but it's an added benefit and one that's weighted more heavily as time goes on. When I do my grocery shopping I will always get cash to pay for it, also makes it easier to keep costs in check.
- spacenick88 8y ago
  Interestingly at least in my experience this seems to be changing rapidly in just a few months since more girocards (which have much lower fees than credit cards) have gotten RFID. Suddenly it's so much faster at the checkout (no pin below about 30€) and no fumbling to get it in right that it turned at least my shopping from 80% cash to 10% cash. The only thing I now regularly pay cash is the food in the cafeteria, it's always 5€ so no coins and they don't take cards anyway. Also one huge issue with girocards before this change was, that the cashier first had to press a button to enable the terminal for cards and if you had out inserted already you would have to take it out and in again. That was super awkward every time
kara_jade 8y ago
Yes, you could think that old folks are one of the problems, but the extent seems vastly overrated if you look at the most recent study published by Germany's Federal Reserve Bank: "Payment Behaviour in Germany 2017" (only available in German) [1]. The relevant statistic is on page 52 and shows the forms of payment used grouped by age. The percentages for payment by cash are (2008 percentages in parentheses for comparison): 65+: 58 % (66 %) 55 to 64: 48 % (64 %) 45 to 54: 46 % (52 %) 35 to 44: 38 % (50 %) 25 to 34: 44 % (55 %) 18 to 24: 44 % (69 %) [1] https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Veroeffentlichungen/Studien/zahlungsverhalten_in_deutschland_2017.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Veroeffentl...

by zhdc1 8y ago

lars_francke 8y ago

As a fellow german I couldn't agree more. I only have anecdotal evidence (but to be fair I didn't see any evidence in the article either that this cash-focus in Germany is really based on privacy/trust issues) but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. You're looked at funny if you want to pay small amounts by card here. Part of the reason I think where historically high costs attached to credit card payments but the girocard system has been pretty cheap all along. Another issue I see is that it sometimes takes ages for the machines to do their thing. I've been wondering for a while what the reason could be when using PINs. When I lived in Switzerland I remember things working like this at a supermarket: 1) You put all your stuff on the belt at the register 2) While your stuff is being scanned you can already put your card in the machine, enter your PIN and press okay once 3) When everything's scanned you only have to press ok again and the transaction is finished In Germany it's different. You first have to wait for the whole scanning/entering into the register process to be finished before you can even put your card in the machine. Hoping contactless payment will make this easier.

wolfgke 8y ago
> I only have anecdotal evidence (but to be fair I didn't see any evidence in the article either that this cash-focus in Germany is really based on privacy/trust issues) but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. I know quite some in Germany (and see myself among them). "Ironically" I observe that the people who are most vocally privacy-minded (also concerning cash) - at least in my cicrcle - often have studied computer science (or a related subject) or are at least very interested in computer science topics, while the people who argue very vocally that paying via credit card/NFC/... is so much more convenient are not the kind of people who are very interested in computer science topics.
- freeflight 8y ago
  > while the people who argue very vocally that paying via credit card/NFC/... is so much more convenient are not the kind of people that is very interested in computer science topics. They are usually also among those folks who don't think anybody would be interested in their data along the lines of "What are they even gonna do with it? Why should I care" firmly belonging to the "Nothing to hide, so I got nothing to fear" camp.
freeflight 8y ago
> but I have never heard anyone use cash for privacy/trust reasons. Only a few people state this as their main reason, but it's an added benefit and one that's weighted more heavily as time goes on. When I do my grocery shopping I will always get cash to pay for it, also makes it easier to keep costs in check.
spacenick88 8y ago
Interestingly at least in my experience this seems to be changing rapidly in just a few months since more girocards (which have much lower fees than credit cards) have gotten RFID. Suddenly it's so much faster at the checkout (no pin below about 30€) and no fumbling to get it in right that it turned at least my shopping from 80% cash to 10% cash. The only thing I now regularly pay cash is the food in the cafeteria, it's always 5€ so no coins and they don't take cards anyway. Also one huge issue with girocards before this change was, that the cashier first had to press a button to enable the terminal for cards and if you had out inserted already you would have to take it out and in again. That was super awkward every time

kara_jade 8y ago

Yes, you could think that old folks are one of the problems, but the extent seems vastly overrated if you look at the most recent study published by Germany's Federal Reserve Bank: "Payment Behaviour in Germany 2017" (only available in German) [1]. The relevant statistic is on page 52 and shows the forms of payment used grouped by age. The percentages for payment by cash are (2008 percentages in parentheses for comparison): 65+: 58 % (66 %) 55 to 64: 48 % (64 %) 45 to 54: 46 % (52 %) 35 to 44: 38 % (50 %) 25 to 34: 44 % (55 %) 18 to 24: 44 % (69 %) [1] https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Veroeffentlichungen/Studien/zahlungsverhalten_in_deutschland_2017.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Veroeffentl...