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> That Germany has no major internationally successful consumer tech companies ... What?! > more defensive [..] when it comes to criticism Maybe it's the sp

> That Germany has no major internationally successful consumer tech companies ... What?! > more defensive [..] when it comes to criticism Maybe it's the special air of ignorance combined with assumed superiority that sets them off, eager nodding not-withstanding.

TulliusCicero 8y ago
> ... > What?! Well, do you have any examples? Anything like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, etc.? Because I'm looking at this list(1) and not seeing anything on that level, or even very close to it really. Or look at the Fortune Global 500, no German tech companies there, only car or manufacturing companies. > Maybe it's the special air of ignorance What ignorance? Nothing I've said is wrong, shit my one friend I had in Munich before moving here said more or less the same thing to me before I had even come to this conclusion (granted, he works at Amazon). > combined with assumed superiority that sets them off, eager nodding not-withstanding. That's just your own sensitivities at play. If I thought the US was flatly superior to Germany, I wouldn't have moved to the latter. I could go on and on about areas where Germany is clearly superior to the US -- land use, transportation, social safety nets, egalitarian policies, etc. -- but none of those are the topic of this thread. Perhaps you should be asking yourself why you responded to accurate criticism by lashing out. Again, I've seen plenty of threads on, say, healthcare, where Europeans will comment on how outrageous and stupid the US system is, and Americans will upvote their comments and reply with how much they agree. When particular European countries are singled out though, and particularly some of them like Germany, you don't see the same behavior. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Technology_companies_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Technology_companies_...
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  > do you have any examples? Look around in the kitchen: Bosch, Miele, Siemens... > Anything like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox Mainly retail, marketing, and electronic services, not a lot of consumer electronics. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding of what a "consumer tech company" is. Still, calling an entire country backwards--"So many places being cash-only is very much "WHAT YEAR IS IT??"--because some aspect of life there doesn't conform to your Bay-area-informed sensibilities and assumed life-style is bound to raise some hackles.
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    > Bosch, Miele, Siemens... These are "tech companies" the same way General Electric or Maytag or KitchenAid are tech companies. They're not, at least going by the standard definition. I suppose it's possible the definitions differ specifically because Germany has few significant tech companies of the software-and-services variety. > calling an entire country backwards I never did this. I said Germany was specifically backwards when it came to consumer-facing technology, not that Germany was backwards in general. You seem to be reading in my comments what you want to see there. And I used more examples than just the cash-only bit, and I have plenty to spare. The average UX for German websites and apps, for example, is significantly behind the US standard, from what I've seen. Although of course this is a generalization, there's tons of individual variance.
    - lispm 8y ago
      > came to consumer-facing technology I don't think this is true. There is a lot of consumer facing technology - but not so much in the form of Internet companies. Cars are full with consumer facing electronics&services and the companies are now similar to 'tech' companies. See Audi, BMW, Mercedes, ... There are few consumer facing things more advanced than for example an S-Class Mercedes. Innovation happens in many places - not just in big companies. The Mittelstand has 1000+ so-called hidden champions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions What Germany lacks are huge Internet companies - but it's not the general lack of innovation, but the scale of the home market&language. The EU market is larger, but there is still the language barrier - the whole EU has the same problem. Plus keep in mind that Germany is just 1/4 of the US in terms of people - but in terms of exports its not that far behind and a lot of that is high-tech, where it makes a lot of money. For example Porsche is probably the most profitable car manufacturer in the world. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4331194/Porsche-biggest-profit-making-carmaker-world.html http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4331194/Pors...
      - TulliusCicero 8y ago
        > I don't think this is true. There is a lot of consumer facing technology - but not so much in the form of Internet companies. That's fair, it may be an American thing that when we say "tech companies" we really mean "internet/software/computer companies", Americans wouldn't generally classify Ford or GE or Activision as tech companies, even though they obviously make heavy use of technology. As for the problems of European fragmentation, that obviously doesn't help things. But Spotify seems to be doing just fine, even though its home market is tiny. And WhatsApp is an American company that was able to find vast success overseas, but very little success at home.

TulliusCicero 8y ago

> ... > What?! Well, do you have any examples? Anything like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, etc.? Because I'm looking at this list(1) and not seeing anything on that level, or even very close to it really. Or look at the Fortune Global 500, no German tech companies there, only car or manufacturing companies. > Maybe it's the special air of ignorance What ignorance? Nothing I've said is wrong, shit my one friend I had in Munich before moving here said more or less the same thing to me before I had even come to this conclusion (granted, he works at Amazon). > combined with assumed superiority that sets them off, eager nodding not-withstanding. That's just your own sensitivities at play. If I thought the US was flatly superior to Germany, I wouldn't have moved to the latter. I could go on and on about areas where Germany is clearly superior to the US -- land use, transportation, social safety nets, egalitarian policies, etc. -- but none of those are the topic of this thread. Perhaps you should be asking yourself why you responded to accurate criticism by lashing out. Again, I've seen plenty of threads on, say, healthcare, where Europeans will comment on how outrageous and stupid the US system is, and Americans will upvote their comments and reply with how much they agree. When particular European countries are singled out though, and particularly some of them like Germany, you don't see the same behavior. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Technology_companies_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Technology_companies_...

craigsmansion 8y ago
> do you have any examples? Look around in the kitchen: Bosch, Miele, Siemens... > Anything like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox Mainly retail, marketing, and electronic services, not a lot of consumer electronics. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding of what a "consumer tech company" is. Still, calling an entire country backwards--"So many places being cash-only is very much "WHAT YEAR IS IT??"--because some aspect of life there doesn't conform to your Bay-area-informed sensibilities and assumed life-style is bound to raise some hackles.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  > Bosch, Miele, Siemens... These are "tech companies" the same way General Electric or Maytag or KitchenAid are tech companies. They're not, at least going by the standard definition. I suppose it's possible the definitions differ specifically because Germany has few significant tech companies of the software-and-services variety. > calling an entire country backwards I never did this. I said Germany was specifically backwards when it came to consumer-facing technology, not that Germany was backwards in general. You seem to be reading in my comments what you want to see there. And I used more examples than just the cash-only bit, and I have plenty to spare. The average UX for German websites and apps, for example, is significantly behind the US standard, from what I've seen. Although of course this is a generalization, there's tons of individual variance.
  - lispm 8y ago
    > came to consumer-facing technology I don't think this is true. There is a lot of consumer facing technology - but not so much in the form of Internet companies. Cars are full with consumer facing electronics&services and the companies are now similar to 'tech' companies. See Audi, BMW, Mercedes, ... There are few consumer facing things more advanced than for example an S-Class Mercedes. Innovation happens in many places - not just in big companies. The Mittelstand has 1000+ so-called hidden champions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions What Germany lacks are huge Internet companies - but it's not the general lack of innovation, but the scale of the home market&language. The EU market is larger, but there is still the language barrier - the whole EU has the same problem. Plus keep in mind that Germany is just 1/4 of the US in terms of people - but in terms of exports its not that far behind and a lot of that is high-tech, where it makes a lot of money. For example Porsche is probably the most profitable car manufacturer in the world. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4331194/Porsche-biggest-profit-making-carmaker-world.html http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4331194/Pors...
    - TulliusCicero 8y ago
      > I don't think this is true. There is a lot of consumer facing technology - but not so much in the form of Internet companies. That's fair, it may be an American thing that when we say "tech companies" we really mean "internet/software/computer companies", Americans wouldn't generally classify Ford or GE or Activision as tech companies, even though they obviously make heavy use of technology. As for the problems of European fragmentation, that obviously doesn't help things. But Spotify seems to be doing just fine, even though its home market is tiny. And WhatsApp is an American company that was able to find vast success overseas, but very little success at home.