5 ms·

Quit your job

66 points by breily 18y ago

edw519 18y ago
Let's not lose sight of the fact that bootstrapping and seeking investment don't have to be mutually exclusive. Any bootstrapped business, well executed with passion, can find itself in the position of needing capital to further expand the founders dream. What a nice problem to have.
- wanorris 18y ago
  I would say that there's a continuum based on what you're trying to build. If you're trying to build something that needs huge networking effects to succeed (general-purpose social networks have been an obvious example in the recent past), trying to bootstrap it past a certain point is going to be counterproductive. You have to try to shoot for the moon. Other types of businesses are likely to never have a use for significant financing: the blog includes an example of a pet daycare. Starting a web design consultancy is usually in this same category. Of course, many tech startups are somewhere in between. The company could blow up huge, but it can also be sustainable with gradual growth and limited capital. Then it's basically a tactical decision when and if to seek capital.
Tichy 18y ago
"Some of them will make millions of dollars each year " And some will go broke...
- fendale 18y ago
  And then they will go out and get a new job and probably be more employable as a result of their experiences ... Clearly a few will make millions, some will make enough and most will go broke, but that's the way business is. Now, to some how figure out a product that people want and get the courage to quit my job ... not easy!
  - Tichy 18y ago
    I just didn't like that he made it sound as if everything was so easy. Most of the time, it is not. Not saying that it is wrong to quit your job, but doing so is no guarantee to become a millionaire. Why did he even write the "some of them making millions" line? It's dishonest, in my opinion (he probably didn't mean it like that, but it draws the wrong picture). Also, will people be more employable after quitting their jobs? It depends what employers are looking for. Some of them want "stable" employees who won't go leaving soon again, when the next best opportunity shows up.
    - fendale 18y ago
      "Also, will people be more employable after quitting their jobs? It depends what employers are looking for. Some of them want "stable" employees who won't go leaving soon again, when the next best opportunity shows up." Yea I guess that is true. It gives you a lot of things to talk about in an interview though, and you will no doubt have polished your dev skills nicely.
redorb 18y ago
Life is too short to work at a job you hate, but everyone has to do something someone else is willing to pay them for.
- ggruschow 18y ago
  > everyone has to do something someone else is willing to pay them for. Subsistence farming - grow your own crops and eat them. Banditry - take someone else's crops. Proprietary trading - take someone else's money they got paid for their crops, legally
  - parker 18y ago
    > Subsistence farming - grow your own crops and eat them. So how did you buy your land again? Or is the Soviet Government still encouraging settlement in Siberia ... ? I think supposing that you need money to stay alive in our society is a fairly air-tight theory.
- skmurphy 18y ago
  This is brilliant. Can you please contact me (I can't figure out how to reach you from your comments and profile) and let me know who I should attribute it to: it's a succinct insight that I would like to quote properly.
  - redorb 18y ago
    added contact information to my profile, the name of the man would be Sid Emmert
wallflower 18y ago
Two conflicting quotes: "If all you get from your job is a paycheck, you're underpaid." "Work doesn't necessarily make you happy but it may give you means (money) to do the stuff that makes you happy"
cellis 18y ago
I am sorry, but I have to be the bearer of an antithesis to all this "Start a small little business, produce good products, and live a happy life" talk that has, of late, become more accepted on news.y. I think all of you need to go back and read wealth.html . In short: If you don't want to create a lot of wealth, chances are, you won't create any.
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  Most people don't want to create a lot of wealth. Most people just want to create enough wealth, and enjoy life. It comes back to: Will I be any more happy with a billion over a (few) million in the bank? For most people, the answer is no.
- wanorris 18y ago
  > In short: If you don't want to create a lot of wealth, chances are, you won't create any. Completely depends on what you're trying to do. It's easy to make a small, sustainable business in some areas, especially service businesses. If you get certified and get a union card, you can hang out your shingle as a plumber or electrician, and odds are you'll make plenty of money, but you have no hope of getting super rich. As a plumber, there really isn't any technology on the horizon that is any obvious threat to make your job redundant, and people in India will never take your job. You are creating wealth, just not a ton of it. This kind of business may be harder to make sustainable in the internet technology industry, but as 37 Signals has demonstrated, it's certainly not impossible.
mixmax 18y ago
If you are doing a webbased service, and your plan is to make billions do you really need outside capital? I think the answer for a lot of businesses might be no. By now it is common knowledge that a webbased company can be started by a couple of good hackers in a few months - just look at some of the Y-combinator companies. So the next stage after building your product is marketing and growth. Common wisdom tells us that growth requires a lot of money - but I think this is often a fallacy extrapolated from a world ten years ago that was very different than todays. What do you need the money for? If you have a webservice your income goes up as you gain users (if it doesn't you might need to rethink your business model) so hardware costs can be paid for this way. Marketing is often a question of having a good product and being smart in your marketing - having a lot of money doesn't always help you. Look at how well pets.com did with all their marketing and contrast it to google that did no marketing at all but had a great product. Besides having investors is a timesink, and you will spend time that you could have spent marketing or making your product better on reports and financial statements for your investors. Chase customers instead of chasing investors, unless you are doing something that truly requires capital.
- cstejerean 18y ago
  The problem is a lot of the advertising related business don't start actually making money until they get HUGE, for example YouTube. I'm still not sure if YouTube is actually making money yet. And even if you're lucky enough to make some income from ads chances are it will barely pay for the cost of living of the founders at first. So if you want to hire additional employees you probably need outside funding (if you're going for the get big quick model). On the other hand I don't understand why some companies raise as much as they do. What did Xobni need 4 million dollars for?
kaens 18y ago
I like that we live in a time where it is getting easier for people to make their living doing what they love. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that we haven't been able to practically accomplish this for very long, and there are a lot of factors that influence whether or not someone will be successful. Hopefully, society will continue to move in this direction, what with information about how to do just about anything at just about everyones fingertips just about all the time.
obelix 18y ago
ok, am I the only one getting a bit annoyed about 37 signals rant about their mode is the best in the world and no one elses? They don't have to rant daily about this. For every successful Thai restaurant, I can show you 4 that failed [or more]. There are many ways to Rome, 37 signals likes to walk to Rome while others take a lot riskier route. For each his own.
- davidw 18y ago
  Walking to Rome might be a very risky proposition if you have to cross any crosswalks.
- pchristensen 18y ago
  pg talks about startups all the time and no one complains. They're just doing their own form of self promotion and marketing. It's a lot easier for someone to buy your product if you've convinced them you're a genius.
- imp 18y ago
  I'm not annoyed. It's only been a few days of their "rants." I'm sure they'll talk about software again soon.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    good data, more people should be aware of these findings.
- fendale 18y ago
  I think their model carries a lot of weight, but its not the only way. Besides, show me 1 successful business and I will be able to show you 9 that failed (if the 1 in 10 success statistic is correct) - most businesses will fail, not matter which way you do it.
  - cstejerean 18y ago
    While 1 in 10 might be correct across all startups, I'm pretty sure that of the companies aspiring to be the next Google or Facebook the failure rate is far higher than 1 in 10. Otherwise all it would take is about 10 tries and statistically you would have a pretty good chance of being a multi billionaire.
Fuca 18y ago
I was just amazed of a good idea I just saw: they charge you 10 usd a month for being in the front page of about 50 small search engines, so the result is that you get a good amount of traffic and these guys have a mini adsense and probably making a decent living.
elai 18y ago
DHH: Hacker Crack
mattjung 18y ago
The 37Signals model is a valid model and it is honorable that they evangelize it. I would say, it is the "30-something-model" for people you can't affort to deal with high risks and prefer to slidely glitch into professional independence. That said, the "20-something-model" (Google, Facebook et al.) is particularly attractive for young people that like to play big. Up to you to decide, which one fits better to your personal situation and your risk profile.
- kirubakaran 18y ago
  Well said. I am going with the 25-something-model :-p
- gnaritas 18y ago
  The 30 something model is called reality, and is better for everyone, including 20 somethings. The 20 something model (Google, Facebook et al.) is called a lottery and though a precious few people do win, the vast vast majority don't amount to squat and just end up wasting their 20's looking for the next big thing that isn't going to happen. Like the lottery, it's great for people who are really bad at math and don't pay attention to the odds. If you're going to play the lottery and try to build the next big thing, play it after you succeed at the 30 something model and can afford to waste your time.
  - mattjung 18y ago
    It's more than a lottery. It is also a great adventure of which you can learn a lot. We need those visionary "crazy" people with big ideas that change the world.
    - gnaritas 18y ago
      Yes, "crazy people", because anyone with brains plays the odds and goes for millions, not billions.
Mistone 18y ago
there is a great series of papers published by Intuit and the Institute of the Future called the Future of Small Business, the third paper is called the Artisan Economy - it speaks directly to the trend they are referring to, exciting stuff, especially if your targeting the fortune 5,000,000. http://preview.tinyurl.com/38r7us http://preview.tinyurl.com/38r7us
sabat 18y ago
Dear 37Signals, Quit telling me how to live. Love, Sabat
- gnaritas 18y ago
  Dear Sabat, if you don't like them, stop reading their blog. There's nothing wrong with them giving advice on their own blog.
  - sabat 18y ago
    There comes a point at which their public prescriptions for the world become annoying. Since their blog posts are publicized in places (other than their blog) that I should not have to avoid, a little feedback is in order.
procyon 18y ago
More I read posts like these, more I appreciate what Paul Buchheit had said during startup school speech - "Listening != Obeying".
goodgoblin 18y ago
People are natuarally drawn to the 'life is to short to do X' line of argument. But is it really? I'm in the middle of a startup, following my dream so to speak, meanwhile putting off my career, and not taking VC. If it succeeds, great. If it doesn't, I'm 3 years behind where I could be, an opportunity cost, and I've lost a bunch of friends and family money. Life is too short to be miserable all the time, which is sometimes what I think the 'life is too short' line of argument is all about - making people feel miserable if they aren't living up to some exalted paradigm of meaningful existence. Sometimes I wonder if my day job is really that bad or if I am I just being made to feel miserable b/c of some appeal to an aspect of human nature that will forever be restless.

66 points by breily 18y ago

Let's not lose sight of the fact that bootstrapping and seeking investment don't have to be mutually exclusive. Any bootstrapped business, well executed with passion, can find itself in the position of needing capital to further expand the founders dream. What a nice problem to have.

wanorris 18y ago
I would say that there's a continuum based on what you're trying to build. If you're trying to build something that needs huge networking effects to succeed (general-purpose social networks have been an obvious example in the recent past), trying to bootstrap it past a certain point is going to be counterproductive. You have to try to shoot for the moon. Other types of businesses are likely to never have a use for significant financing: the blog includes an example of a pet daycare. Starting a web design consultancy is usually in this same category. Of course, many tech startups are somewhere in between. The company could blow up huge, but it can also be sustainable with gradual growth and limited capital. Then it's basically a tactical decision when and if to seek capital.

Tichy 18y ago

"Some of them will make millions of dollars each year " And some will go broke...

fendale 18y ago
And then they will go out and get a new job and probably be more employable as a result of their experiences ... Clearly a few will make millions, some will make enough and most will go broke, but that's the way business is. Now, to some how figure out a product that people want and get the courage to quit my job ... not easy!
- Tichy 18y ago
  I just didn't like that he made it sound as if everything was so easy. Most of the time, it is not. Not saying that it is wrong to quit your job, but doing so is no guarantee to become a millionaire. Why did he even write the "some of them making millions" line? It's dishonest, in my opinion (he probably didn't mean it like that, but it draws the wrong picture). Also, will people be more employable after quitting their jobs? It depends what employers are looking for. Some of them want "stable" employees who won't go leaving soon again, when the next best opportunity shows up.
  - fendale 18y ago
    "Also, will people be more employable after quitting their jobs? It depends what employers are looking for. Some of them want "stable" employees who won't go leaving soon again, when the next best opportunity shows up." Yea I guess that is true. It gives you a lot of things to talk about in an interview though, and you will no doubt have polished your dev skills nicely.

redorb 18y ago

Life is too short to work at a job you hate, but everyone has to do something someone else is willing to pay them for.

ggruschow 18y ago
> everyone has to do something someone else is willing to pay them for. Subsistence farming - grow your own crops and eat them. Banditry - take someone else's crops. Proprietary trading - take someone else's money they got paid for their crops, legally
- parker 18y ago
  > Subsistence farming - grow your own crops and eat them. So how did you buy your land again? Or is the Soviet Government still encouraging settlement in Siberia ... ? I think supposing that you need money to stay alive in our society is a fairly air-tight theory.
skmurphy 18y ago
This is brilliant. Can you please contact me (I can't figure out how to reach you from your comments and profile) and let me know who I should attribute it to: it's a succinct insight that I would like to quote properly.
- redorb 18y ago
  added contact information to my profile, the name of the man would be Sid Emmert

wallflower 18y ago

Two conflicting quotes: "If all you get from your job is a paycheck, you're underpaid." "Work doesn't necessarily make you happy but it may give you means (money) to do the stuff that makes you happy"

cellis 18y ago

I am sorry, but I have to be the bearer of an antithesis to all this "Start a small little business, produce good products, and live a happy life" talk that has, of late, become more accepted on news.y. I think all of you need to go back and read wealth.html . In short: If you don't want to create a lot of wealth, chances are, you won't create any.

run4yourlives 18y ago
Most people don't want to create a lot of wealth. Most people just want to create enough wealth, and enjoy life. It comes back to: Will I be any more happy with a billion over a (few) million in the bank? For most people, the answer is no.
wanorris 18y ago
> In short: If you don't want to create a lot of wealth, chances are, you won't create any. Completely depends on what you're trying to do. It's easy to make a small, sustainable business in some areas, especially service businesses. If you get certified and get a union card, you can hang out your shingle as a plumber or electrician, and odds are you'll make plenty of money, but you have no hope of getting super rich. As a plumber, there really isn't any technology on the horizon that is any obvious threat to make your job redundant, and people in India will never take your job. You are creating wealth, just not a ton of it. This kind of business may be harder to make sustainable in the internet technology industry, but as 37 Signals has demonstrated, it's certainly not impossible.

mixmax 18y ago

If you are doing a webbased service, and your plan is to make billions do you really need outside capital? I think the answer for a lot of businesses might be no. By now it is common knowledge that a webbased company can be started by a couple of good hackers in a few months - just look at some of the Y-combinator companies. So the next stage after building your product is marketing and growth. Common wisdom tells us that growth requires a lot of money - but I think this is often a fallacy extrapolated from a world ten years ago that was very different than todays. What do you need the money for? If you have a webservice your income goes up as you gain users (if it doesn't you might need to rethink your business model) so hardware costs can be paid for this way. Marketing is often a question of having a good product and being smart in your marketing - having a lot of money doesn't always help you. Look at how well pets.com did with all their marketing and contrast it to google that did no marketing at all but had a great product. Besides having investors is a timesink, and you will spend time that you could have spent marketing or making your product better on reports and financial statements for your investors. Chase customers instead of chasing investors, unless you are doing something that truly requires capital.

cstejerean 18y ago
The problem is a lot of the advertising related business don't start actually making money until they get HUGE, for example YouTube. I'm still not sure if YouTube is actually making money yet. And even if you're lucky enough to make some income from ads chances are it will barely pay for the cost of living of the founders at first. So if you want to hire additional employees you probably need outside funding (if you're going for the get big quick model). On the other hand I don't understand why some companies raise as much as they do. What did Xobni need 4 million dollars for?

kaens 18y ago

I like that we live in a time where it is getting easier for people to make their living doing what they love. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that we haven't been able to practically accomplish this for very long, and there are a lot of factors that influence whether or not someone will be successful. Hopefully, society will continue to move in this direction, what with information about how to do just about anything at just about everyones fingertips just about all the time.

obelix 18y ago

ok, am I the only one getting a bit annoyed about 37 signals rant about their mode is the best in the world and no one elses? They don't have to rant daily about this. For every successful Thai restaurant, I can show you 4 that failed [or more]. There are many ways to Rome, 37 signals likes to walk to Rome while others take a lot riskier route. For each his own.

davidw 18y ago
Walking to Rome might be a very risky proposition if you have to cross any crosswalks.
pchristensen 18y ago
pg talks about startups all the time and no one complains. They're just doing their own form of self promotion and marketing. It's a lot easier for someone to buy your product if you've convinced them you're a genius.
imp 18y ago
I'm not annoyed. It's only been a few days of their "rants." I'm sure they'll talk about software again soon.
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  good data, more people should be aware of these findings.
fendale 18y ago
I think their model carries a lot of weight, but its not the only way. Besides, show me 1 successful business and I will be able to show you 9 that failed (if the 1 in 10 success statistic is correct) - most businesses will fail, not matter which way you do it.
- cstejerean 18y ago
  While 1 in 10 might be correct across all startups, I'm pretty sure that of the companies aspiring to be the next Google or Facebook the failure rate is far higher than 1 in 10. Otherwise all it would take is about 10 tries and statistically you would have a pretty good chance of being a multi billionaire.

Fuca 18y ago

I was just amazed of a good idea I just saw: they charge you 10 usd a month for being in the front page of about 50 small search engines, so the result is that you get a good amount of traffic and these guys have a mini adsense and probably making a decent living.

elai 18y ago

DHH: Hacker Crack

mattjung 18y ago

The 37Signals model is a valid model and it is honorable that they evangelize it. I would say, it is the "30-something-model" for people you can't affort to deal with high risks and prefer to slidely glitch into professional independence. That said, the "20-something-model" (Google, Facebook et al.) is particularly attractive for young people that like to play big. Up to you to decide, which one fits better to your personal situation and your risk profile.

kirubakaran 18y ago
Well said. I am going with the 25-something-model :-p
gnaritas 18y ago
The 30 something model is called reality, and is better for everyone, including 20 somethings. The 20 something model (Google, Facebook et al.) is called a lottery and though a precious few people do win, the vast vast majority don't amount to squat and just end up wasting their 20's looking for the next big thing that isn't going to happen. Like the lottery, it's great for people who are really bad at math and don't pay attention to the odds. If you're going to play the lottery and try to build the next big thing, play it after you succeed at the 30 something model and can afford to waste your time.
- mattjung 18y ago
  It's more than a lottery. It is also a great adventure of which you can learn a lot. We need those visionary "crazy" people with big ideas that change the world.
  - gnaritas 18y ago
    Yes, "crazy people", because anyone with brains plays the odds and goes for millions, not billions.

Mistone 18y ago

there is a great series of papers published by Intuit and the Institute of the Future called the Future of Small Business, the third paper is called the Artisan Economy - it speaks directly to the trend they are referring to, exciting stuff, especially if your targeting the fortune 5,000,000. http://preview.tinyurl.com/38r7us http://preview.tinyurl.com/38r7us

sabat 18y ago

Dear 37Signals, Quit telling me how to live. Love, Sabat

gnaritas 18y ago
Dear Sabat, if you don't like them, stop reading their blog. There's nothing wrong with them giving advice on their own blog.
- sabat 18y ago
  There comes a point at which their public prescriptions for the world become annoying. Since their blog posts are publicized in places (other than their blog) that I should not have to avoid, a little feedback is in order.

procyon 18y ago

More I read posts like these, more I appreciate what Paul Buchheit had said during startup school speech - "Listening != Obeying".

goodgoblin 18y ago

People are natuarally drawn to the 'life is to short to do X' line of argument. But is it really? I'm in the middle of a startup, following my dream so to speak, meanwhile putting off my career, and not taking VC. If it succeeds, great. If it doesn't, I'm 3 years behind where I could be, an opportunity cost, and I've lost a bunch of friends and family money. Life is too short to be miserable all the time, which is sometimes what I think the 'life is too short' line of argument is all about - making people feel miserable if they aren't living up to some exalted paradigm of meaningful existence. Sometimes I wonder if my day job is really that bad or if I am I just being made to feel miserable b/c of some appeal to an aspect of human nature that will forever be restless.