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In my first experience with trains in Japan, I had to take a jaunt that included a leg from Nagoya to Matsusaka. The train ride was about 90 minutes, and I was

In my first experience with trains in Japan, I had to take a jaunt that included a leg from Nagoya to Matsusaka. The train ride was about 90 minutes, and I was anxious about knowing which station to exit. I anticipated that the signage would all be in Japanese. So I asked the station attendant in Nagoya how I'd know when to get off. He looked at my ticket and said, "The train will stop at 1:11PM. You get off." The train stopped at promptly 1:11 PM, and I got off in Matsusaka.

oceanman888 8y ago
Been living in japan since 2011, you can search when train stops at where exactly now, including emergency info. And all station attendant have a booklet with all those stuff written, so all he had to do is to take a look at it. When it comes to government related system in japan they surprisingly works very well with outdated tech
dorfsmay 8y ago
I don't understand, isn't that how trains work everywhere? Otherwise how are the people in the next city supposed to know when they need to be there to board that train?
- rayiner 8y ago
  I mean there is a time posted, and it won’t leave earlier than that, but it may leave a lot later. Here is the delay distribution for the train I would take to work if it wasn’t so late: https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php?train_num=111&station=Ncr&date_start=04%2F24%2F2018&date_end=05%2F24%2F2018&df1=1&df2=1&df3=1&df4=1&df5=1&df6=1&df7=1&sort=d_dp&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1 https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php?t...
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    > it won’t leave earlier than that, Except by accident: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791
- lfam 8y ago
  In many places, the trains are always late, but never early. So you get to the station at the appointed time and just wait. You couldn't tell someone to get off the train at "1:11" in the US.
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > isn't that how trains work everywhere? I live in Midwest USA, and trains and busses here are routinely off schedule. More than say 60% of the time, it will be 5 to 15+ minutes late, and you'll be forced to waste that time just waiting for arrival/transfer. Also, occasionally buses arrive and depart a little bit early, so you can't just arrive on time and be safe either, you have to plan on being at least 10 minutes early to be safe. If a scheduled departure time is 1:10PM, then a weekly list of actual departure times in the US might often look like : (Monday, 1:15PM, Tuesday, 1:18PM, Wednesday, 1:04PM, Thursday 1:22PM, Friday, 1:11PM, more or less at random). There's no reliable way to plan ahead for that, so realistically you just have to always be 10 minutes early, and expect to wait through to 20+ minutes late, just in case. This also repeats for every single transfer you might have to make... and most trips require at least one transfer...
  - Groxx 8y ago
    That sounds pretty good compared to my Midwest experiences :| Hourly schedule, literally never fits the times presented so you just go and wait. And sometimes you end up waiting 1.5 hours with nothing, so you call up the station to find out wtf and they have no idea where the bus is. "It should be there soon!" -> it finally comes after 2.5 hours. This happened at least 4 times in the 30 or so attempts I made to use it to get to college. A mere 3 miles away. Then I gave up and just walked or drove. Eventually attended a town hall, and the higher-ups claimed no knowledge of any of this. Last I heard it was still performing at the same level. I assume they were either skipping our stops to fake a normal round-trip time, or just disappearing for an hour or two to smoke.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Well, the train says it arrives at 1:11, which means that it will be there at some time past 1:11, because it will inevitably be late, caused by breakdowns or track maintenance or the weather (in Australia, if it gets too hot, the trains have to slow down).
  - BigJono 8y ago
    In Melbourne at least it seems like the system is run exactly at capacity. If one train has to stop at a platform for 3 minutes extra because of a signal fault or a sick passenger, every train on that line (and probably 2 other lines) for the next 3 hours is critically fucked. It seems like there's no leeway in the timetables to make up lost time, and no extra trains parked in the outer suburbs (morning) or CBD (afternoon) to make up services.
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      The other day my train had to wait for 5 minutes just outside Flinders St station because didn't have a platform to park the train at. Flinders is a real bottleneck, if the flow starts to stutter there, everything falls to bits. Upon saying that, Melbourne's trains are usually pretty good, over 90% on time. It's the buses here that I have issues with. The timetable at the stop is completely useless, and the app is not much better. Sometimes the PTV app says the bus will arrive in 1 minute, and it arrives 5 minutes later.
      - wavegeek 8y ago
        > over 90% on time While true, this is a factoid. 1. Some trains never run. For the commuter this is like a very late train. You need to add the "did not run" numbers to the late trains to get a total effective lateness figure. 2. Some trains run but are so full you cannot get on them. Try catching a train from Prahran to the city at 8am. Nonetheless, this counts as an on time service. 3.On time is defined as anywhere from 1 minute early to 5:59 late. To me six minutes late is not on time. 4. The fraction of late trains is much higher in peak hour, when more people are affected. So the effective late % is higher than it looks at face value.
- lhorie 8y ago
  When people in japan says "the train will be there 1:11PM", they mean, "it'll be there 1:11:00PM sharp, not 1:10PM, not 1:12PM".
  - bemmu 8y ago
    If you ride in the first car and look at the timetable the driver uses, you can see the timetable is accurate to the second. Here's a photo showing a driver's timetable. In the second row is a 20 second stop at Hazama, the train arrival time is 13:25:05 and departure 13:25:25. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/asianrailroad/imgs/f/a/fa9e3956.jpg http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/asianrailroad/imgs/f/a/fa9e3956.j...
    - pm215 8y ago
      That timetable looks like it's on 5-second granularity, not 1-second. Which is still pretty tight -- the UK's working timetables are half-minute granularity. (The UK also demonstrates that it's not merely a matter of having an exact timetable, you also need to be able to keep to it in practice :-))
- kumarvvr 8y ago
  For the most part in developing countries. But remember that in Japan, most train stations are minutes apart. So getting off at 1:11 is absolutely stunning. Also, they have a national radio broadcast that broadcasts time. I think most of their clocks are built to read info from the radio channel and sync to it. So you are usually advised to see the myriad of clocks displayed everywhere.
- mayankkaizen 8y ago
  In India, this is not how it works usually. I mean if a train is late by 5-30 minutes, the train is said to be on time.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  In Japan there was an apology because a train left 20 seconds AHEAD of schedule: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839 This is not unusual: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 Trains in Japan run very regularly, much more so than in other countries I've visited. Only yesterday I was on a Finnish train and it was delayed by 15 minutes, which lead to some confusion when it did turn up over whether it was the correct train.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  Here's the live arrivals board for Manchester Victoria station in England. At the time of posting, the next five trains scheduled to arrive were 15 minutes late, 14 minutes late, 25 minutes late, 8 minutes late and cancelled. This is not atypical. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/arr/MCV http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/arr/MCV Running a railway to time is remarkably difficult, because a single delay can cascade through the entire network. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.648.7084&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.648...
- gymshoes 8y ago
  In India, trains being right on time is considered a rare occurrence. Usually trains are late 5-30 minutes and sometimes even hours.
- golergka 8y ago
  Moscow subway has a train every 2 or 3 minutes most of the time, so there's no timetable anywhere visible to the passengers - you just wait for the next train. In rare occurences where trains have different destinations (about only 2 lines have those), you just look it up at the train windshield or listen to the announcement.
- zhte415 8y ago
  This is how trains are supposed to run... High speed typically takes single track. One delay causes countless more delays.. domino effect. By using single track, any deficiency is immediately visible. So by moving to the surface any potential for error which could be hidden or diluted, each part of the machine is forced to move at the same rate. This increases system wide efficiency.
- qop 8y ago
  In a very magical place called new york, there are trains also, but legend has it that they have NEVER been on time! Spooky!
tpurves 8y ago
Yes! When I first visited japan I used the same method. Every train trip, all I had to do was look at my ticket for the arival time, and look at the clock and, to the minute, it never failed to help me get me off at the right stop.
jupiter90000 8y ago
That's pretty awesome. I hear often how perfectly on time the trains are there, which is usually true. However, I've experienced some train delays in Japan, mostly in Tokyo. One was so bad I ended up doing something else for a couple hours to wait until it got resolved. Here's an article that reviews info from a report on rush hour delays in Tokyo for those interested. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/16/national/japans-trains-always-time-report-highlights-frequency-rush-hour-delays-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/16/national/japans...
kara_jade 8y ago
Here’s a short video about the Tokyo Metro which shows in a nutshell why Japanese trains are pretty much always on time: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_rtxm30NULU https://youtube.com/watch?v=_rtxm30NULU
chopin 8y ago
I didn't exactly use this line when visiting Japan last year, but I never had trouble with leaving at the correct station as everything was announced in latin writing as well (even Nikko and Hakkone wasn't a problem). However in Tokyo I took a picture of every station sign I stepped over in order to find my way back :-). I was ashamed of Germany (where I live) when visiting Japan especially when comparing public transport.
skjerns 8y ago
Nowadays most stations are also subtitled in Latin writing

oceanman888 8y ago

Been living in japan since 2011, you can search when train stops at where exactly now, including emergency info. And all station attendant have a booklet with all those stuff written, so all he had to do is to take a look at it. When it comes to government related system in japan they surprisingly works very well with outdated tech

dorfsmay 8y ago

I don't understand, isn't that how trains work everywhere? Otherwise how are the people in the next city supposed to know when they need to be there to board that train?

rayiner 8y ago
I mean there is a time posted, and it won’t leave earlier than that, but it may leave a lot later. Here is the delay distribution for the train I would take to work if it wasn’t so late: https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php?train_num=111&station=Ncr&date_start=04%2F24%2F2018&date_end=05%2F24%2F2018&df1=1&df2=1&df3=1&df4=1&df5=1&df6=1&df7=1&sort=d_dp&sort_dir=DESC&co=gt&limit_mins=&dfon=1 https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php?t...
- stevekemp 8y ago
  > it won’t leave earlier than that, Except by accident: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791
lfam 8y ago
In many places, the trains are always late, but never early. So you get to the station at the appointed time and just wait. You couldn't tell someone to get off the train at "1:11" in the US.
maxsilver 8y ago
> isn't that how trains work everywhere? I live in Midwest USA, and trains and busses here are routinely off schedule. More than say 60% of the time, it will be 5 to 15+ minutes late, and you'll be forced to waste that time just waiting for arrival/transfer. Also, occasionally buses arrive and depart a little bit early, so you can't just arrive on time and be safe either, you have to plan on being at least 10 minutes early to be safe. If a scheduled departure time is 1:10PM, then a weekly list of actual departure times in the US might often look like : (Monday, 1:15PM, Tuesday, 1:18PM, Wednesday, 1:04PM, Thursday 1:22PM, Friday, 1:11PM, more or less at random). There's no reliable way to plan ahead for that, so realistically you just have to always be 10 minutes early, and expect to wait through to 20+ minutes late, just in case. This also repeats for every single transfer you might have to make... and most trips require at least one transfer...
- Groxx 8y ago
  That sounds pretty good compared to my Midwest experiences :| Hourly schedule, literally never fits the times presented so you just go and wait. And sometimes you end up waiting 1.5 hours with nothing, so you call up the station to find out wtf and they have no idea where the bus is. "It should be there soon!" -> it finally comes after 2.5 hours. This happened at least 4 times in the 30 or so attempts I made to use it to get to college. A mere 3 miles away. Then I gave up and just walked or drove. Eventually attended a town hall, and the higher-ups claimed no knowledge of any of this. Last I heard it was still performing at the same level. I assume they were either skipping our stops to fake a normal round-trip time, or just disappearing for an hour or two to smoke.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Well, the train says it arrives at 1:11, which means that it will be there at some time past 1:11, because it will inevitably be late, caused by breakdowns or track maintenance or the weather (in Australia, if it gets too hot, the trains have to slow down).
- BigJono 8y ago
  In Melbourne at least it seems like the system is run exactly at capacity. If one train has to stop at a platform for 3 minutes extra because of a signal fault or a sick passenger, every train on that line (and probably 2 other lines) for the next 3 hours is critically fucked. It seems like there's no leeway in the timetables to make up lost time, and no extra trains parked in the outer suburbs (morning) or CBD (afternoon) to make up services.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    The other day my train had to wait for 5 minutes just outside Flinders St station because didn't have a platform to park the train at. Flinders is a real bottleneck, if the flow starts to stutter there, everything falls to bits. Upon saying that, Melbourne's trains are usually pretty good, over 90% on time. It's the buses here that I have issues with. The timetable at the stop is completely useless, and the app is not much better. Sometimes the PTV app says the bus will arrive in 1 minute, and it arrives 5 minutes later.
    - wavegeek 8y ago
      > over 90% on time While true, this is a factoid. 1. Some trains never run. For the commuter this is like a very late train. You need to add the "did not run" numbers to the late trains to get a total effective lateness figure. 2. Some trains run but are so full you cannot get on them. Try catching a train from Prahran to the city at 8am. Nonetheless, this counts as an on time service. 3.On time is defined as anywhere from 1 minute early to 5:59 late. To me six minutes late is not on time. 4. The fraction of late trains is much higher in peak hour, when more people are affected. So the effective late % is higher than it looks at face value.
lhorie 8y ago
When people in japan says "the train will be there 1:11PM", they mean, "it'll be there 1:11:00PM sharp, not 1:10PM, not 1:12PM".
- bemmu 8y ago
  If you ride in the first car and look at the timetable the driver uses, you can see the timetable is accurate to the second. Here's a photo showing a driver's timetable. In the second row is a 20 second stop at Hazama, the train arrival time is 13:25:05 and departure 13:25:25. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/asianrailroad/imgs/f/a/fa9e3956.jpg http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/asianrailroad/imgs/f/a/fa9e3956.j...
  - pm215 8y ago
    That timetable looks like it's on 5-second granularity, not 1-second. Which is still pretty tight -- the UK's working timetables are half-minute granularity. (The UK also demonstrates that it's not merely a matter of having an exact timetable, you also need to be able to keep to it in practice :-))
kumarvvr 8y ago
For the most part in developing countries. But remember that in Japan, most train stations are minutes apart. So getting off at 1:11 is absolutely stunning. Also, they have a national radio broadcast that broadcasts time. I think most of their clocks are built to read info from the radio channel and sync to it. So you are usually advised to see the myriad of clocks displayed everywhere.
mayankkaizen 8y ago
In India, this is not how it works usually. I mean if a train is late by 5-30 minutes, the train is said to be on time.
stevekemp 8y ago
In Japan there was an apology because a train left 20 seconds AHEAD of schedule: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839 This is not unusual: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791 Trains in Japan run very regularly, much more so than in other countries I've visited. Only yesterday I was on a Finnish train and it was delayed by 15 minutes, which lead to some confusion when it did turn up over whether it was the correct train.
jdietrich 8y ago
Here's the live arrivals board for Manchester Victoria station in England. At the time of posting, the next five trains scheduled to arrive were 15 minutes late, 14 minutes late, 25 minutes late, 8 minutes late and cancelled. This is not atypical. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/arr/MCV http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/arr/MCV Running a railway to time is remarkably difficult, because a single delay can cascade through the entire network. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.648.7084&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.648...
gymshoes 8y ago
In India, trains being right on time is considered a rare occurrence. Usually trains are late 5-30 minutes and sometimes even hours.
golergka 8y ago
Moscow subway has a train every 2 or 3 minutes most of the time, so there's no timetable anywhere visible to the passengers - you just wait for the next train. In rare occurences where trains have different destinations (about only 2 lines have those), you just look it up at the train windshield or listen to the announcement.
zhte415 8y ago
This is how trains are supposed to run... High speed typically takes single track. One delay causes countless more delays.. domino effect. By using single track, any deficiency is immediately visible. So by moving to the surface any potential for error which could be hidden or diluted, each part of the machine is forced to move at the same rate. This increases system wide efficiency.
qop 8y ago
In a very magical place called new york, there are trains also, but legend has it that they have NEVER been on time! Spooky!

tpurves 8y ago

Yes! When I first visited japan I used the same method. Every train trip, all I had to do was look at my ticket for the arival time, and look at the clock and, to the minute, it never failed to help me get me off at the right stop.

jupiter90000 8y ago

That's pretty awesome. I hear often how perfectly on time the trains are there, which is usually true. However, I've experienced some train delays in Japan, mostly in Tokyo. One was so bad I ended up doing something else for a couple hours to wait until it got resolved. Here's an article that reviews info from a report on rush hour delays in Tokyo for those interested. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/16/national/japans-trains-always-time-report-highlights-frequency-rush-hour-delays-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/16/national/japans...

kara_jade 8y ago

Here’s a short video about the Tokyo Metro which shows in a nutshell why Japanese trains are pretty much always on time: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_rtxm30NULU https://youtube.com/watch?v=_rtxm30NULU

chopin 8y ago

I didn't exactly use this line when visiting Japan last year, but I never had trouble with leaving at the correct station as everything was announced in latin writing as well (even Nikko and Hakkone wasn't a problem). However in Tokyo I took a picture of every station sign I stepped over in order to find my way back :-). I was ashamed of Germany (where I live) when visiting Japan especially when comparing public transport.

skjerns 8y ago

Nowadays most stations are also subtitled in Latin writing