5 ms·

Google’s competitor here is AWS. AWS’ comparable product is ECS. ECS also lost. Roll on EKS.

by bboreham 8y ago

justicezyx 8y ago
You missed the point. It should have been the battle of Docker to take on incubate VM-based compute providers.
- bboreham 8y ago
  Apparently I also miss your point, because I cannot parse it. Did you mean “incumbent”?
jimmy1 8y ago
And the biggest reason ECS lost imo because of the poor load balancing and service discovery options. They just now released Route 53 service discovery via DNS but it might be too little too late.
- Rapzid 8y ago
  I believe those are just symptoms of the underlying issue; AWS's closed off and slow roll development practices simply could not keep up. They tried to rectify the situation with Blox; I'm honestly not sure how that is going. When you ask about attaching EFS or EBS to services in fargate and they ask what your use case for that is... In the words of Drake; "...we gonna see."
  - geerlingguy 8y ago
    Yeah, no EFS in Fargate is a deal-breaker; we manage our own nodes in ECS right now, just because we want EFS support. It was kind of too-little-too-late, same thing with Route53 DNS-based service discovery—it's annoying when you feel nickel-and-dimed into adding an (relatively expensive, IMHO) ELB/ALB per service to be able to direct requests to the backend. I'm hoping EKS will evolve a lot more quickly and stay up to date with the upstream; it would be awesome if AWS has full and stable support for all the major bits like persistent volumes (on EFS or EBS), LoadBalancers (ELBs/ALBs, hopefully more configurable someday), etc. It sounds like the beta period is over and AWS is ramping up for EKS' GA soon.
linkmotif 8y ago
Huh? Why would you want one of these to win?
- bboreham 8y ago
  I did not intend to state a wish that any of Google, ECS, AWS or EKS would “win”. I do believe EKS is a good choice for many people. As is GKS, and many similar offerings. BTW I work for a company selling Kubernetes tools and support.
ironjunkie 8y ago
Hmm, Did you forget that most of Kubernetes clusters are actually deployed in AWS? Google probably got the best "managed" solution with GKE, (a close call with Azure IMO) but most people still use AWS and way more deployment happen in AWS
- zaat 8y ago
  Close call? Seriously? GKE is a GA, production, supported platform, Azure is still far behind at the moment, in Preview with no declared planned GA date on the roadmap. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/roadmap/?query=container+service/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/roadmap/?query=container+s...
verst 8y ago
I realize that Azure isn't as popular in the US startup crowd (and certainly not on HN), but you really cannot mention EKS without also mentioning AKS which is much more mature IMHO. And ACI (Azure Container Instances) is a serverless container offering that was launched before Fargate. Beyond the Azure offering, Microsoft has also shown tremendous commitment to the Kubernetes ecosystem at large. Take a look at the many Kubernetes open source tools created by Microsoft that work with Kubernetes anywhere (!!!): [1] Helm (initially created by Deis, acquired by Microsoft) [2] Virtual Kubelet [3] Draft [4] Brigade [5] VSCode: Kubernetes Tools And more... [1]: helm.sh [2]: https://github.com/virtual-kubelet/virtual-kubelet [3]: https://github.com/azure/draft [4]: https://github.com/azure/brigade [5]: https://github.com/Azure/vscode-kubernetes-tools Disclaimer: I'm a developer advocate for Kubernetes / Linux at Azure (but a member of the community first and foremost). I've never run a Windows Container, and I don't have a single Windows VM in Azure ;) I encourage you to take a close look at the Azure offering. It's actually very awesome!
- zaat 8y ago
  >without also mentioning AKS which is much more mature IMHO. AKS is anything but mature.It's barely working. Last month I was at Microsoft event and everyone was suppose to launch an environment. By the fifth or six environment, provisioning died and no one could provision an environment. And I mean it died globally, regardless of the region you tried to run it at. Provision time is awful even when no one is "stress testing" the provisioning engine. This is all good and acceptable, relatively, when the service state is labeled as preview, which is how it is labeled officially. Mature isn't a word to use in regards to AKS currently. The hype Microsoft advocates try to build around AKS gives the impression a highly puffed CV of a junior dev, and IMHO it is unfortunate and a wrong way to build trust. It is fine that Azure haven't yet developed state of the art kubernetes cloud service, no one except Google have, just don't claim you did if you want us to believe you when it labeled GA that we can use it for real workloads.
  - verst 8y ago
    You are correct. The provisioning sucked. I will be fully transparent about that. In fact, I had the same problems myself. You can see the list of issues here [1]. That provisioning madness is actually unrelated to AKS, but it's being addressed by the team. This is one of the reasons why the service isn't GA yet. I'd say give it a try in the EastUS region, or some time after GA. Once you do have an AKS cluster up it all works well. [1]: https://github.com/Azure/AKS/issues https://github.com/Azure/AKS/issues
auslander 8y ago
> ECS also lost Hmm ... Could you back this up ?
- bboreham 8y ago
  Evidence: EKS.

Google’s competitor here is AWS. AWS’ comparable product is ECS. ECS also lost. Roll on EKS.

justicezyx 8y ago

You missed the point. It should have been the battle of Docker to take on incubate VM-based compute providers.

bboreham 8y ago
Apparently I also miss your point, because I cannot parse it. Did you mean “incumbent”?

jimmy1 8y ago

And the biggest reason ECS lost imo because of the poor load balancing and service discovery options. They just now released Route 53 service discovery via DNS but it might be too little too late.

Rapzid 8y ago
I believe those are just symptoms of the underlying issue; AWS's closed off and slow roll development practices simply could not keep up. They tried to rectify the situation with Blox; I'm honestly not sure how that is going. When you ask about attaching EFS or EBS to services in fargate and they ask what your use case for that is... In the words of Drake; "...we gonna see."
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  Yeah, no EFS in Fargate is a deal-breaker; we manage our own nodes in ECS right now, just because we want EFS support. It was kind of too-little-too-late, same thing with Route53 DNS-based service discovery—it's annoying when you feel nickel-and-dimed into adding an (relatively expensive, IMHO) ELB/ALB per service to be able to direct requests to the backend. I'm hoping EKS will evolve a lot more quickly and stay up to date with the upstream; it would be awesome if AWS has full and stable support for all the major bits like persistent volumes (on EFS or EBS), LoadBalancers (ELBs/ALBs, hopefully more configurable someday), etc. It sounds like the beta period is over and AWS is ramping up for EKS' GA soon.

linkmotif 8y ago

Huh? Why would you want one of these to win?

bboreham 8y ago
I did not intend to state a wish that any of Google, ECS, AWS or EKS would “win”. I do believe EKS is a good choice for many people. As is GKS, and many similar offerings. BTW I work for a company selling Kubernetes tools and support.

ironjunkie 8y ago

Hmm, Did you forget that most of Kubernetes clusters are actually deployed in AWS? Google probably got the best "managed" solution with GKE, (a close call with Azure IMO) but most people still use AWS and way more deployment happen in AWS

zaat 8y ago
Close call? Seriously? GKE is a GA, production, supported platform, Azure is still far behind at the moment, in Preview with no declared planned GA date on the roadmap. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/roadmap/?query=container+service/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/roadmap/?query=container+s...

verst 8y ago

I realize that Azure isn't as popular in the US startup crowd (and certainly not on HN), but you really cannot mention EKS without also mentioning AKS which is much more mature IMHO. And ACI (Azure Container Instances) is a serverless container offering that was launched before Fargate. Beyond the Azure offering, Microsoft has also shown tremendous commitment to the Kubernetes ecosystem at large. Take a look at the many Kubernetes open source tools created by Microsoft that work with Kubernetes anywhere (!!!): [1] Helm (initially created by Deis, acquired by Microsoft) [2] Virtual Kubelet [3] Draft [4] Brigade [5] VSCode: Kubernetes Tools And more... [1]: helm.sh [2]: https://github.com/virtual-kubelet/virtual-kubelet [3]: https://github.com/azure/draft [4]: https://github.com/azure/brigade [5]: https://github.com/Azure/vscode-kubernetes-tools Disclaimer: I'm a developer advocate for Kubernetes / Linux at Azure (but a member of the community first and foremost). I've never run a Windows Container, and I don't have a single Windows VM in Azure ;) I encourage you to take a close look at the Azure offering. It's actually very awesome!

zaat 8y ago
>without also mentioning AKS which is much more mature IMHO. AKS is anything but mature.It's barely working. Last month I was at Microsoft event and everyone was suppose to launch an environment. By the fifth or six environment, provisioning died and no one could provision an environment. And I mean it died globally, regardless of the region you tried to run it at. Provision time is awful even when no one is "stress testing" the provisioning engine. This is all good and acceptable, relatively, when the service state is labeled as preview, which is how it is labeled officially. Mature isn't a word to use in regards to AKS currently. The hype Microsoft advocates try to build around AKS gives the impression a highly puffed CV of a junior dev, and IMHO it is unfortunate and a wrong way to build trust. It is fine that Azure haven't yet developed state of the art kubernetes cloud service, no one except Google have, just don't claim you did if you want us to believe you when it labeled GA that we can use it for real workloads.
- verst 8y ago
  You are correct. The provisioning sucked. I will be fully transparent about that. In fact, I had the same problems myself. You can see the list of issues here [1]. That provisioning madness is actually unrelated to AKS, but it's being addressed by the team. This is one of the reasons why the service isn't GA yet. I'd say give it a try in the EastUS region, or some time after GA. Once you do have an AKS cluster up it all works well. [1]: https://github.com/Azure/AKS/issues https://github.com/Azure/AKS/issues

auslander 8y ago

> ECS also lost Hmm ... Could you back this up ?

bboreham 8y ago
Evidence: EKS.