5 ms·

Safari is the new Internet Explorer https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/ https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

ballenf 8y ago
Until another browser implements proper tail calls as per the spec, I'll still have great respect for Safari, quirks and all. It's the only browser where you can write fully functional, continuation passing style code without fear of blowing the stack. And all the fear mongering over "it makes debugging haaard" is just frustrating. Debugging is hard, there's just no way around it. The Develop menu in Safari is also without equal in my experience. Quick access to almost a dozen settings each of which requires either command line arguments or buried toggles and restarts in Chrome (or myriad extensions). I do wonder why the console doesn't use a monospace font. That's not the only problem with Safari, but it's one of the most off-putting, glaring issues. Makes you feel like the browser isn't intended for serious work. Which I guess some people would say is true.
- Scarbutt 8y ago
  They even solved the debugging complaint of TCO by having a shadow stack but to be fair chrome is way ahead in implemented JS features.
- andrethegiant 8y ago
  > I do wonder why the console doesn't use a monospace font I use Safari dev tools exclusively and can report that the console does indeed use a monospace font. I wonder how you configured your setup to use otherwise.
  - darepublic 8y ago
    Any reason you prefer Safari dev tools over Chrome's?
rubyn00bie 8y ago
No, it's not. It cannot be and this is extremely harmful and short sighted. Safari does not have a monopoly on either Desktop or Mobile. Safari while behind does not implement its own broken standards and force them upon everyone. It doesn't allow for semantically broken HTML and simply "fixes it." I'm not trying to be ageist here, but I often find this rhetoric from people who are too young to have actually worked with IE 4-6.
- wvenable 8y ago
  At the time IE6 was released it was easily best browser and many many of the standards that we now take for granted (DOM events on every tag, AJAX, etc) were started with IE. Now what followed that was years of stagnation just like we're starting to see with Safari. Safari is the exclusive platform browser for iOS; even Microsoft didn't prevent you from installing alternative browsers! So in that way, Mobile Safari is even worse. From there, everything else follows: developers simply cannot afford to ignore Safari, despite its flaws, just like they couldn't afford to ignore IE despite its flaws.

Until another browser implements proper tail calls as per the spec, I'll still have great respect for Safari, quirks and all. It's the only browser where you can write fully functional, continuation passing style code without fear of blowing the stack. And all the fear mongering over "it makes debugging haaard" is just frustrating. Debugging is hard, there's just no way around it. The Develop menu in Safari is also without equal in my experience. Quick access to almost a dozen settings each of which requires either command line arguments or buried toggles and restarts in Chrome (or myriad extensions). I do wonder why the console doesn't use a monospace font. That's not the only problem with Safari, but it's one of the most off-putting, glaring issues. Makes you feel like the browser isn't intended for serious work. Which I guess some people would say is true.

Scarbutt 8y ago
They even solved the debugging complaint of TCO by having a shadow stack but to be fair chrome is way ahead in implemented JS features.
andrethegiant 8y ago
> I do wonder why the console doesn't use a monospace font I use Safari dev tools exclusively and can report that the console does indeed use a monospace font. I wonder how you configured your setup to use otherwise.
- darepublic 8y ago
  Any reason you prefer Safari dev tools over Chrome's?

rubyn00bie 8y ago

No, it's not. It cannot be and this is extremely harmful and short sighted. Safari does not have a monopoly on either Desktop or Mobile. Safari while behind does not implement its own broken standards and force them upon everyone. It doesn't allow for semantically broken HTML and simply "fixes it." I'm not trying to be ageist here, but I often find this rhetoric from people who are too young to have actually worked with IE 4-6.

wvenable 8y ago
At the time IE6 was released it was easily best browser and many many of the standards that we now take for granted (DOM events on every tag, AJAX, etc) were started with IE. Now what followed that was years of stagnation just like we're starting to see with Safari. Safari is the exclusive platform browser for iOS; even Microsoft didn't prevent you from installing alternative browsers! So in that way, Mobile Safari is even worse. From there, everything else follows: developers simply cannot afford to ignore Safari, despite its flaws, just like they couldn't afford to ignore IE despite its flaws.