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Concretely though, in London, it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs, even if your Englis

Concretely though, in London, it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs, even if your English is very bad. Deliveroo bikers have chosen Deliveroo over those, and there must be a reason for that, which the article fails to mention. I'm also not taking sides, I just want to point out it's flat out wrong to say "if they're doing this in these conditions, it is probably because they don't have a choice".

n4r9 8y ago
> in London, it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs That's a lot faster than I would predict. What are you basing that on?
kennydude 8y ago
> it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs Have you done this?
- lhorie 8y ago
  Anecdata, but I have seen it happen many times. My cousin came to Toronto for a few months and wanted some under the table income. I was buying some pastries in a bakery I liked around that time, and noticed they had a hiring sign. I told her about it and she was working there a couple days later. A former coworker had a similar story. He got into a fight with his wife because she was spending all day in facebook instead of finding a job, so out of frustration and spite he went out to pretty much the first pizza joint he could find and talked to the manager. 30 mins later she now had a job. Heck, I have another cousin with schizophrenia who managed to land a security job (he didn't last unfortunately due to his condition worsening), but it goes to show finding a low pay job isn't some insurmountable task.
  - Karrot_Kream 8y ago
    Opposing anecdata, my SO's sister had an ivy league degree and spent 3 months looking for jobs until she got the only job she could, front of house work at a bakery. Every other job, service jobs included, turned her down. Another friend with a strong public school degree who floated around for months interviewing until she moved back with her parents, then finally got a job at the local library.
    - lhorie 8y ago
      I wonder if over-qualification in resumes plays a role. In the book Nickel and Dimed[1], the author explicitly hid the fact she had higher education even from colleagues. And whereas she complained a lot about working conditions, finding a job per se wasn't a challenge at all (to the point she could even decide between two options at one point), even being restricted to non-intensive labor jobs due to health reasons. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed
      - n4r9 8y ago
        Over-qualification definitely makes a difference. An employer will be reluctant to hire someone that's likely to snag a higher-paying job in a few weeks.
        walterstucco 8y ago
        I think it's more subtle than that. If you're over qualified for the job you're applying I'd be more inclined to think that you'll leave as soon as something better comes up.
  - mercer 8y ago
    Actually, I'd say your anecdata can also support how alternatives might be difficult for many people. In your first example you mentioned a 'she'. From what I've been told from friends in the service industry, that's a plus (even somewhat if you're not considered attractive, but obviously much less so). In your second example it didn't last, so it's quite possible a number of these "didn't last" experiences lead to doing deliveroo-style work. Furthermore, I've been shocked by how terrible some people are at 1) considering alternatives to whatever choices they think they have, and 2) doing okay in an interview. I get the impression lots of people are just not rational actors in these matters, and there are all sorts of hidden factors that can prevent someone from going for the 'better' jobs. I don't have strong opinions on what we should conclude from that, but I am at least inclined to think making the shittiest option as good as possible might be an all-round good thing to pursue.
rorykoehler 8y ago
For me personally riding my bike around delivering food would be far preferable to working in a restaurant or bar. Depends on your personality I guess.
- parliament32 8y ago
  "Far preferable" enough that you'd settle for under minimum wage and a variable paycheque? If so, you are exactly the reason companies like Deliveroo exist. They appeal to the whole "but you'll be so free cruising around on your bike delivering food at your own pace!" mentality.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    And there's nothing wrong with that! If people find that "far preferable", that's up to them, not you.
    - eropple 8y ago
      There's a lot wrong with that when society--us--have the duty and obligation, which we do, to help when that Deliveroo driver gets doored and can't pay a medical bill because the job is comedically penurious. Employers have a duty to their employees and to the society and community that grants them the right to the fiction of their existence, and that is being shirked.
      - philwelch 8y ago
        > There's a lot wrong with that when society--us--have the duty and obligation, which we do, to help when that Deliveroo driver gets doored and can't pay a medical bill because the job is comedically penurious. Which is why Britain has the NHS. To me, the entire point of a robust welfare state is that you don't need to regulate employment nearly as strictly, because then you aren't as reliant on employers for life necessities. And that's a net positive, because regulation is far less effective than entitlements.

n4r9 8y ago

> in London, it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs That's a lot faster than I would predict. What are you basing that on?

kennydude 8y ago

> it takes under a day to find a "real" job in a restaurant or a bar just by walking around and handing out CVs Have you done this?

lhorie 8y ago
Anecdata, but I have seen it happen many times. My cousin came to Toronto for a few months and wanted some under the table income. I was buying some pastries in a bakery I liked around that time, and noticed they had a hiring sign. I told her about it and she was working there a couple days later. A former coworker had a similar story. He got into a fight with his wife because she was spending all day in facebook instead of finding a job, so out of frustration and spite he went out to pretty much the first pizza joint he could find and talked to the manager. 30 mins later she now had a job. Heck, I have another cousin with schizophrenia who managed to land a security job (he didn't last unfortunately due to his condition worsening), but it goes to show finding a low pay job isn't some insurmountable task.
- Karrot_Kream 8y ago
  Opposing anecdata, my SO's sister had an ivy league degree and spent 3 months looking for jobs until she got the only job she could, front of house work at a bakery. Every other job, service jobs included, turned her down. Another friend with a strong public school degree who floated around for months interviewing until she moved back with her parents, then finally got a job at the local library.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    I wonder if over-qualification in resumes plays a role. In the book Nickel and Dimed[1], the author explicitly hid the fact she had higher education even from colleagues. And whereas she complained a lot about working conditions, finding a job per se wasn't a challenge at all (to the point she could even decide between two options at one point), even being restricted to non-intensive labor jobs due to health reasons. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed
    - n4r9 8y ago
      Over-qualification definitely makes a difference. An employer will be reluctant to hire someone that's likely to snag a higher-paying job in a few weeks.
      - walterstucco 8y ago
        I think it's more subtle than that. If you're over qualified for the job you're applying I'd be more inclined to think that you'll leave as soon as something better comes up.
- mercer 8y ago
  Actually, I'd say your anecdata can also support how alternatives might be difficult for many people. In your first example you mentioned a 'she'. From what I've been told from friends in the service industry, that's a plus (even somewhat if you're not considered attractive, but obviously much less so). In your second example it didn't last, so it's quite possible a number of these "didn't last" experiences lead to doing deliveroo-style work. Furthermore, I've been shocked by how terrible some people are at 1) considering alternatives to whatever choices they think they have, and 2) doing okay in an interview. I get the impression lots of people are just not rational actors in these matters, and there are all sorts of hidden factors that can prevent someone from going for the 'better' jobs. I don't have strong opinions on what we should conclude from that, but I am at least inclined to think making the shittiest option as good as possible might be an all-round good thing to pursue.

rorykoehler 8y ago

For me personally riding my bike around delivering food would be far preferable to working in a restaurant or bar. Depends on your personality I guess.

parliament32 8y ago
"Far preferable" enough that you'd settle for under minimum wage and a variable paycheque? If so, you are exactly the reason companies like Deliveroo exist. They appeal to the whole "but you'll be so free cruising around on your bike delivering food at your own pace!" mentality.
- jstanley 8y ago
  And there's nothing wrong with that! If people find that "far preferable", that's up to them, not you.
  - eropple 8y ago
    There's a lot wrong with that when society--us--have the duty and obligation, which we do, to help when that Deliveroo driver gets doored and can't pay a medical bill because the job is comedically penurious. Employers have a duty to their employees and to the society and community that grants them the right to the fiction of their existence, and that is being shirked.
    - philwelch 8y ago
      > There's a lot wrong with that when society--us--have the duty and obligation, which we do, to help when that Deliveroo driver gets doored and can't pay a medical bill because the job is comedically penurious. Which is why Britain has the NHS. To me, the entire point of a robust welfare state is that you don't need to regulate employment nearly as strictly, because then you aren't as reliant on employers for life necessities. And that's a net positive, because regulation is far less effective than entitlements.